Learned 2 good lessons yesterday...

Very good story - great lessons we all can learn and re-learn!!

 

OK.... There must be a full moon.... The Looney's are out there...

Today I started formal flight training, went aloft with my permanent CFI, for the first time.
Having accumulated maybe 20 hrs (some 30, to 40 years ago),
I've decided to GO FOR IT, now that things allow.

T/O in our C-152 was on Rwy 32, (VFR), and we "held short" while two others made finals and touched down. All went well till approx 1700ft, When, as we are still climbing straight on our cleared way to 3000 ft, to do some "lets see what you already know" maneuvers.

All of a sudden I see the outline of a low winger about a half mile(?) ahead of us, and GETTING BIGGER, and bigger, approx 400 -500 feet higher, and just on the centerline of our aircraft (from my perspective). CFI was demonstrating with his hands in the air, on the amount of rudder to use, with coordinated aileron when, I aborted the climb, levelling, just as my CFI spotted him.
Having seen him, and having levelled off the climb before we reached altitude alerted the CFI.
He was giving an explanation and focused momentarily, inside the aircraft.

And who would expect someone to be going opposite us, in our flight path whilst climbing out??

In the instant that it all happened, my mind thought
"Wow! this must have been what it was like in WWII when our guy's spotted a Zero comimg at them" Cause that's, just what it resembled, from the films I've seen of aerial combat.

The CFI yelled out "MY AIRCRAFT", (as the headset I borrowed, started cutting out just after lift off) and made a diving turn to the left. We both watched as this guy continued straight ahead, about 300 feet above us.
I don't think he / she, ever saw us.

It was all over within about three- four seconds, from the time I first saw him.

Whatever this guy was doing at this altitude over an active runway headed into traffic.... is beyond me. He certainly wasn't on downwind...

It just shows one, how quickly a situation can become hazardous, when concentration is directed elsewhere.

This plane instantly appeared out of nowhere, on a cloudless day, with no haze, with the sun at 270 deg relative. At the time I was scanning the compass. Had I been giving my full attention to the CFI, who knows what could have happened.

I have discovered that the old addage ;
"Fly the plane, Navigate, then communicate" ,
means alot more, than get directions or help, on the radio.......

 

OK, I've got 5.+ hours now, under my belt this time around,
I'm getting alot of "excellent" comments from my CFI, after completing
my maneuvers. (I must say it's a real neat feeling!!)

Yesterday, my regular Instr, couldn't make it, but had a temp fill in arranged.
I went up with Joe, another CFI who just started at my F.S. He'd been briefed on what to go over,
as far as maneuvers. We'd gone to a practice area, about a mile offshore of the NJ coast,
and at an Alt of 3500', went into some stall techniques.
First was a couple of power off, followed by a power on.
Each preceeded by either a level, climbing, or descending 360" turn.

Again, I received, "Excellent Recovery" comment's, having the correct amount of pressure release in the yoke,
Instantly going to full power, waiting for airspeed to climb to a maneuvering speed, before
pulling out of the nose down attitude, and only losing 300' in the process.
He was impressed that "I had acted like I was thinking about the aircraft's attitude,
and reacted with the controls, to what was happening, rather than just diving, and hoping"....
as so many (he says) students do.

Somewhere in there...... I seem to have lost, my fear of falling out of the sky!!
You know.... that strange uneasy feeling students get, when the word "stalls"
is combined with the phrase "Lets do some".....

But I must say, that I DO NOT, like the nose up attitude of a power on stall.
It gives me the sensation that the plane is going to reach a point where it's going to
flip over onto it's roof...... JUST BEFORE IT BREAKS.
........But once it does break, Jeez! ..........What a relief.

I don't know how anyone could possibly be so distracted, that they wouldn't notice this attitude,
during a take off. ( the reason for practicing these stalls)
It is NOT a climb attitude, ( unless you are in a Pitts, doing aerobatics, maybe..)
and the back pressure to hold this attitude, puts the yoke in your stomach! And there's not the "G" forces
as you might expect to have, as when say, doing a loop.
It feels more like flying "butt first", while resting, on your shoulder blades!
IMHO, one would have to be unconcious not to notice this!!

So pilots, ( old, and new) be aware that when your rudder pedals seem to have more altitude than your head,
you're doing something, in an unusual attitude, that you probably don't have a rating for !

 

The power on stalls are as close to a stall on takeoff as yuou'll get, but the attitude certainly doesn't need to be as much to initite a stall. For instance, if you rotated too soon your stall can come at a much lower attitude.

 

I'm praying on that.....

Yes, I understand that too.
Some stalls are as much a matter of (too slow) airspeed, as they are excessive AoA, <ie; a ballooning stall, after roundout>

But practicing the attitude exaggerated..... power on stall, or it's recovery,
doesn't help prevent the slow airspeed, early rotation/ liftoff stall, does it?

I think it defeats the purpose, by teaching that the plane has to get into this extreme attitude, and hang there forever, (seemingly) before it stalls.
How do you recover from this when you aren't but 150 feet AGL??
In my understanding, you can't. So all the practice in the world won't help.

Am I NOT seeing something here?

Right now these seem to be taught, starting at a cruise configuration.....
.. maybe start from a "slow flight" configuration, (at a safe altitude of course)and immediately, go into a "take-off" configuration from there and try to stall.. before airspeed is built-up. That might be a better indicator of what may happen in a lift-off stall. Initiate the stall, long before Vx or Vy is attained.

I think that the power off stall, is a better teacher to recognize and prevent slow airspeed stalls.

But then again.... I've only got 6 hours....(now).

I'd like to examine this subject more, with input from some long time aviators, to show me the error of my ways, if there are any. Or even those whom agree with my present viewpoint.

Mind you, I don't profess to be right.... just different, from my viewpoint.
at least until better educated.
I'm sure some other students must feel as I do, too.

Charlie
AKA Skyraider

 

Thanks Nick. Hadn't thought of that, being here on the east coast @ sea level.
But we do have density altitude issues here too in the summer. Nothing like Aspen, or Denver though.
As for being at max gross weight..... That can happen here too.

And they can sometimes make things fun too...As I head "out to sea" for maneuvers, I imagine,
what "WWII Carrier Pilots" viewed during operations in the South Pacific. Sun, Sky, and Sea!

Yes, I'm sure that they are taught, for some purpose.
I'm just too dumb to figure it out alone...

Before I became *comfortable with the idea of falling out of the sky, I could recover,
from a power off stall, with a very small loss of altitude.

[*Explanation: My discomfort came from unfamiliarity, and lack of confidence in **MY** ability to control the aircraft. I'd sit there, so very tensely, waiting for the break...and had it recovered almost before it fell a foot.]
It must have been temporal distortion!
( ya know... like the feeling when you're in an auto accident, and everything goes in slow motion )
When I saw that I could make it go where, and when, I wanted it to... the fears faded.
And my stomach no longer ends up in my throat!

Now, I kind of like the short dive. And for the few seconds it takes to return to climb velocity,
it's fun imagining the view of the Fighter pilot, diving from out of the sun.... with the 50's blazin.....

I still don't like the feeling of hanging there, with my feet above my shoulders, slowly flying butt first, ... in a Power on...

Maybe it has something to do with: my being Seven, and going down a slide on my back, head first,
and getting 12 stitches in my head, because the playground was concrete..........

Maybe, I just need to do more of them..??

Uhhmm.... Power on's, that is!


.

 

I spent 5000 of 8000 hours teaching stalls, etc, to younger (not necesarily young) pilots. THe problem is with hot high density altitude (perhaps inadvertant over gross) situations where the attitude is not so different than normal. I suggest 1/2 power stalls rather than full power stalls, and 1/2 power recoveries.

Good Luck

 

Thanks! I'll mention that to my NEW instructor.
Did I send the first one packing out of fear of his life? ....
Nah! He's just going on to bigger and better.(?)
Now, I have a new CFI... No, not just new to me, but new to the field.
No, not the airfield, ........the job.
Young fella, but mature. I have every confidence in him though, I've already been up once before with him.

He's the one who helped get me over the fear...of falling out of the sky.

 

"But I must say, that I DO NOT, like the nose up attitude of a power on stall.
It gives me the sensation that the plane is going to reach a point where it's going to
flip over onto it's roof...... JUST BEFORE IT BREAKS.
........But once it does break, Jeez! ..........What a relief."


You know, I'm a little wigged out by power on stalls, too. I know the nose up attitude is not as extreme as I percieve it to be, but I feel like I'm punching through the top of the stratosphere. Also, I can just see all of that excess torque and P-factor spinning that puppy if I screw up. Although, really, what is there to screw up...just keep her coordinated, right?! I keep an eye on the ball during the entire process, but I'm still worried about it. I guess it fades with time.

The C172 that I train in feels stall deficient...it requires A LOT of aggrivation to stall. I believe I read somewhere that the 172 is somewhat spin resistant, but I don't know. Sometimes I swear it seems like it takes it forever just to stall, yoke back, warning horn blaring away, altitude increasing...Hopefully, it is equally tough to spin.

Strangely enough, the recovery portion is much less eventful, attitude wise, than the power off stalls, and that brand doesn't bother me at all. I think I need to ride along with an aerobatic pilot and just get myself all shaken and stirred to get a better understanding of unusual attitudes. Even if it costs me my lunch!