Question for the PRO's

I'm not a pro but from what my son went through, those who start in the feeder lines like American Eagle earn maybe 19K per year and trust to luck that they can get a job with the big boys. It ain't fun and it ain't easy.
Switches

 

Full time

 

It really sucks trying to get in on the ground level..... I know a few pilots who gave up and went Mil because they couldn't get by on the low low pay.

 

No.

If you have quite a bit of time off from your current job, you could probably get your CFI and instruct part-time, but to progress from there will definitely be a step down in income.

But, you're 25! Get your licenses while you still have the good job, and then take the step down in income for 5 years or so and get it behind you. Think about this-- when you're 80, are you going to say, "Gee, I'm really glad I kept that job in retail and passed on being a pilot?"

Also, while you're getting your licenses, you may be able to figure out if you really love it. Flying professionally is not something to do unless you love flying, and the money is secondary.

 

I'm not certain of the year but it was just after Frank Lorenzo placed Continental Airlines into bankruptcy. A neighbor of mine who had been previously flying for a commuter (or some other lower level flying) tried to recruit me as he was just hired on at Continental as a "replacement" pilot.

Forgetting about the politics of union busting or "scab" workers, he must have thought that Lorenzo was a great man for giving him a job with the big boys. Continental, I believe, had a program by which they were paying a bounty to anyone who could bring in another pilot to replace all those who were out on strike.

I asked him what the salaries were. After he told me, and with a straight face, I asked who would pay my mortgage after the 50% pay cut.

He just walked off in a huff.

I don't think that things have gotten any better, probably much worse with all of the heratage airlines either in or near bankruptcy and cancelling everyone's (except the corporate officers') pensions.

A recent article in AOPA magazine by long time and now retired airline pilot Barry Schiff tells it like it is.

Recommended reading by a very respectable writer.

Besides.... Why take something you love and ruin it by doing it for a living?

Planeflyr

 

If you're starting out in aviation and want a career in the sky, go to rotorcraft school. Starting chopper pilot salaries are in the $50k range, I'm told.

 

A lot of good info on airline life here.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/

 

Your not going to find an entry level job that will make much money. Your young enough to start at the bottom and have it pay off. It took me a long time to get my job at an airline and I started from the bottom working on planes, flight instructing, corporate than the airline job. I make a good living as a DC-10 Captain and usually get 12 to 13 days off in a row every month. It is never too late to go for your dreams. However, You have to pay your dues in this industry. It is very competetive these days.

 

I live by the ideal it's better to have a good paying job that I may not love, but it pays the bills and I have money left over where I can do fun things at night and take trips on the weekend. Then to have a great job I love, but I am always strapped to pay the bills and I can't do anything due to the lack of many.

You already have a good paying job where you can afford to have a flying hobby. Taking a fun hobby and turning it in to low paying work may suck in the long run.

 

Hello:

I made a lot of mistakes and have gone thru that being broke thing. I first started out in 1989 after I got my CFI ratings. I went to a local flight school and started working. After a few years I decided to free lance At that time most FBo's didn't have a problem with free lance instructors, Now things are changing but use your head.

I then started leasing one airplane then two. After that I ended up owning 5 airplanes and had a pretty good client list. I was making a pretty good living. The ony problem was there would be times when I didn't have a day off for 3 months or so.

I Then started to hire flight instructors and once again started having problems then 09/11/ hit And things got frustrating. Insurence went thru the roof and it was tough to compete with some of the flight schools that had most of their planes paid off.

I had three times when I got burned out on flying. I have logged aver 8,000 of dual instruction alone. I actually hated it 3 times in the last 10 years. I do remember one time driving to work and just saying to myself " I don't want to fly"

I worked for a part 135 air carrier also. I couldn't stand that. since I was just subcontracting thru my own company the pay actually was alright. But as far as that job I really didnt' care for it. I would fly for an hour and then sit for 8 waiting to fly another hour back home.

After 16 years in the flight training industry I quit No more. After being lost for about 2 years I am back but am doing things a little differently. I am flight instructing again and I think I can design my life to a point where I can be happy and make a living at it. Also have the time to go after my life long dream of recording my own CD.

There are many options besides the big airlines. Pay scales are dropping and that industry is going to get hit pretty hard especially if we start dropping more bombs in the middle east.

If you have a passion for it go get all your ratings thru you CFI/ Maybe multi and instrument.

Maybe flight instruct at an FBO part time. START NETWORKING #1 it is who you know. When I owned my flight school I had many people ask me about flying their private planes. I couldn't because of time but they usually will treat you good expecially if you have built a relationship with them.

One area that is about to explode and I am working my way back into is the Designated examiner route. I went to the initial DPE seminar in oak city and they told us that within a few years the FAA was going to start going private. That is where the examiners are going to come into play. The FAA is cutting back its budget and Designees are going to take up the slack. I don't know how far they are going to go but I wouldn't be supprized that some day the designees are going to do all the seminars, accident investigation and whatever the FAA doesn't have the money for.

Right now I am building once again more of a freelance instructor operation. I have been around for years so I have flown a lot of airplanes so I don't usualy have problems getting on insurance. That will be one of your problems. If you like to instruct I would try to get 10 hours in as many airplanes as you can. that will usualy be ok with the insurance companies. Ride along for free if you can and try to find airplanes that have owners that are CFI's so you can get PIC time. There are more than you think

You will have problems with Freelance instructing. most FBO's won't allow it any more so you will have to go after instrument ratings and add on ratings with people in their own airplane. You may be able to find a club that is looking for help with instructors. that will help you train private pilots. you find a student have them join the club then instruct them. That will get you away from having to work for the FBO If FBO's are charging $40 per hour then charge $35 And NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK. Once you get busy you will be able to raise your rates. I just got approved in a local flying club That is 50 potential clients. I charge $45 per hour.

I would also set up your own rules. In flight training if you are not carefull the students will own you. Pick the times you want to fly. At first you will want to fly all the time but be aware If you are MR nice guy like I was you will be flying every time someone has a party, wants to go to the lake.........

I would write up a set of policies that stated when you fly. For me it is Tuesday thru satruday. I start at 7.00 and do three 2 hour lessons per day. I am done by 1.00 and I can have the rest of my day to work on my other love of Music. when night flights come up I set one week per month where I change my schedule. Anyone who wants to fly at night flys in that week.

Get to know the airport manager this way you can get on the airport as a free lance instructor.

If you have that do it on your own spirit you can do it. but you have to be smart if you want to take that way. Keep your debt to a minimum if things are good don't go out and finance a bunch of airplanes. Save up your cash and buy one. Then fly the hell out of it.

There are a lot of other things that instructors I know are getting into. GPS seminars and workshops for example.There are probably 1000 ideas you could come up with.

Find a niche and run with it, make flying part of it but not all of it. That is what I am doing and I can actually see myself being happier than I have ever been. But I am focusing on two things. Flying and Music. Half my day goes to one and the other half goes to the other.

Hope that helps a little

airfreddy
http://learntoflyairplane.blogspot.com/
http://professionalflightinstruction.blogspot.com/

 

hey chopper arent that easy to fly that y u make big buck
and plus people come to aviation for majors
no majors would want you if u got a little bell or robinson hours they want fixed and turbine

 

I wouldn't go too far down the helicopter pilot road unless you really think you would enjoy it a lot more than flying fixed wing aircraft. While the previous posters are right about the starting salaries being higher, the potential to earn a six figure salary isn't really there like it is for a really good fixed wing gig. There might be a few (very very few) helicopter pilots that crack six figures, but I guarantee you there are far more fixed wing pilots making this kind of money than there are helicopter pilots. If you are fine with making 60 k or so for the rest of your career, helicopters might not be a bad career choice since you will probably be dirt poor for a shorter period of time at the beginning as compared to a fixed wing pilot, but if making enough money to have a decent house and take care of a family is important, I would really think about which route will take you where you want to go. Good luck

 

I think it's good of you to think of all the possible scenerios. My opinion, though, is that the answer to this question will become more clear to you as you progress.

Short of "throwin' everything you've got" at becoming a pilot...such as going to a civilian flight trainging academy, or going thru Air Force Pilot trng, I'd think you're gonna have to "take it as it comes"....

Good luck

Dave

 

I'd think long and hard about it. That being said, if you stare up at overflying airplanes and have to, do it. But here is my experience. I speak in terms of airline flying because that is what I wanted to do. Private or corporate or 135 flying is a different animal.

I was a professional with a good chance to make decent money - and I was making decent money setting my own hours. Decided I had to become a pilot. Got all the ratings through CFI II and MEI. Cost $30K for all the ratings in Florida at a flight school at FXE. If you want to do it cheap go somewhere you can fly nearly everyday and do it. You can get your Multi Commercial in about 6 months from zero if your dedicated. (Did mine 6 months to the day).

Got a job at the same flight school instructing making $10/hour. But hey I was GETTING PAID to fly! I knew I wanted to go airline and needed multi time and the school wanted you to be there over a year before they would let you teach in the multi, so I started flying on the side in any multi I could get in. Changed flight schools and got paid $25/hour. Much better. Had enough students to make $40-50K but it was hard work - and you can only do so many holds and approaches before you want to kill yourself. I only lasted about a year and month but was lucky to get on with Pinnacle flying the CRJ. Training was not cool. At least they paid for the hotel but I had a roomate, and had to live in Memphis for 12 weeks. Got paid $200 per week during this time. No flight benefits at this time either so I was stuck. Most all regional airlines treat you like this during training and not much better when you are "on the line."

I made $21/hour and was based in Detroit. It sucked. I took home about $18K the first year. After you get comfortable flying jets it is simply a job and not a very high paying one. Not to mention you are on reserve the first few months if not longer with 1 1/2 hour call out. You end up living in a "crash pad" with a bunch of old disgrunteled pilots in their 40s and 50s. After a while you start asking yourself do I want to commute over two hours or more to go to a crash pad so I don't actually have to live in Detroit when I am 40 or 50. These guys had nothing else they could do so they were stuck. And these guys had to take the pay cut their airlines had given them. I felt sorry for a lot of them.

But I wanted to fly bigger jets for a big airline, so I stuck it out and I got lucky. That is something I didn't mention, I got on with an international airline based where I was living in 3 1/2 years from the begining. That is really lucky. It was faster than anyone I have met. My friends started flying in 00 and 01. 9/11 killed growth for a long time. If fact my sim partner at the big airline was my MEI instructor and he started flying before 9/11 and I started in March of 04. We are at the same level on the seniority list, so take that into consideration.

When I got hired there I ended up getting about a 100% increase in pay and quality of life. But I still had to work nearly every weekend and was on reserve - but I was at home (no commute-no crash pad) and a three hour call out. But I did have about 14-16 days off a month scheduled when I finally got a "line" (hard schedule) after a few months.

Hey, the pay goes up each year and when you become captain at a big airline you will make over $100K at current pay rates. But that is the question. What are the rates going to be by the time you are there. I think being a pilot has become a trade. You will eventually be paid a trade wage and I think captains will make about 80-90 and FOs will make about 40-50. You only have to look as far as regional airlines to see their pay scales to see where the pay is going. Are there still high paying jobs - yes. UPS or Fed EX pay very well but you will be flying red eyes for a long time if you are able to get hired at these airlines. Southwest also pays well but they used to be some of the lowest paid pilots. The industry simply sunk below their levels. Even to get a job at these places you will need to get over 1000hour as a captain in a jet or a turbo prop aircraft - so you would not even be eligible for say three or four years after getting hired at a regional.

Another consideration is the whole seniority system. You are basically stuck at the same big airline your whole career. If you change carriers you start over at the bottom making first year FO pay no matter if you are a 58 year old 747 captain at a place like United making $170K and used to make $300K.

Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of cool things about being a pilot. No stress is huge. When you park the plane you are done. You really don't have a boss and the job becomes very routine. The travel benefits are probably the best thing and the days off are great but you do miss holidays and sporting events with your buddies if you're into that stuff which can be a downer. And when you work your days are long. 14 hour duty days were typical at the regionals and majors. Btw you are only paid for "flight hours."

My airline had a tough go over the summer with the fuel prices and they furloughed over 120 pilots. I was close to not getting furloughed but not close enough. So basically I was laid off in September with a right to be recalled if they need pilots in the future. Luckily they called back 25 pilots in December so some guys came back. I decided to pass it up and I might go back for a few months when I can't refuse the recall any more because I miss flying but I have begun practicing law again and there is a much better future in it than flying.

Sorry about the long winded response. I'm sorry I sound negative - but this is a dose of reality. Like I said I really got lucky and I still find myself out of a job and with some debt because of the low pay when you start out. I just glad I have something to fall back on. Best of luck to you and I would recommend that you have something to fall back on as well if you go for it. You can check out flightinfo.com for more info.

It can be a pretty good job and an airplane like an airbus make life pretty easy.
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