Rob's Private Pilot Training Experience

Hey Rob,
Glad you enjoyed the first lesson. But... Are you in a 141 school? (That's an accelerated course usually completed in a week or two...)

Reason I ask is that it seems you were given alot to digest in your first lesson...
Take offs and landings are not usually given to the student, first time out.
Nor is weight/balance, or flight planning.

They are generally allowed to hold on to and get the feel of the controls as the Instr, does the flying. It's not till you get to a safe altitude, that student is given the first "full control". and then it's usually straight and level flight, level turns, and holding a heading.

Just yer basic "how does it fly" scenario.
You may be given a demo on "slow flight", to see how it handles in landing configuration, and then get a chance to try it yourself at a safe altitude.

But if you did all this in less than one half hour, figuring approx 8 - 9 minutes to climb to altitude (the other half hour+extra time, being taken by preflighting and paperwork) you are being accelerated, which makes me ask the question.


Personally, I feel that the accelerated courses are nothing but certificate mills. Some people, think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread...

There's just not enough time given (IMHO) to allow absorbtion of the material.
I feel that, that is detrimental to the pilots retention of the material.
One learns so much, and before it's committed to memory ( muscular memory as well as cranial memory,) ....There's some NEW task, to learn about !


Remember being in third grade and learning the multiplication tables?
It wasn't done in a few days.... I think, that some time, is needed to digest everything that you need to know.
........and that too, goes for life threatening excursions into space.

But then again...Well.... Who am I???

I flew a few weeks ago with a young lady, that just graduated from a 141 school.. Passed all her tests, and is now a private pilot. She is already working on her Instrument rating, with less than three weeks total, in the air.
She cannot possibly have encountered different weather conditions, winds,
Density altitude changes, or alot of other "minor" things she'll be subjected to.
141's are all about getting the ticket, and not about airmanship. That's a sad thing.

I hear hotshot Instructors with that "get it done in a few days" attitude, and it bothers me...

{In WWII, we sent 20 hour pilots into combat. But they didn't have to deal with GPS' or Glass panels or ADIZ's. We just sent them up to get themselves shot.}

But She's a Pilot, and I have to give her Kudos for that!

 

I agree completely with Charlie. It sounds like you were exposed to quite a lot of different concepts in a first lesson. I'm sue that you will soon feel (if not already) that this is like "drinking from a fire hose" in terms of the information you are trying to process.

Curious... what are you taking your lessons in, C-152 or C-172?

On thing which is impossible to compress is experience. Experience takes the time it takes. Whether you pass your checkride in 35 hours or 60 hours, all you will have is either 35 or 60 hours experience, nothing else.

I have been telling folks for decades that it is easy to learn how to "operate" an airplane. It is quite another thing to become a pilot - both of which have nothing to do with the actual certificate.

Great job, best of luck, stay safe.

Planeflyr

 

Rob glad to hear you got in the air. And Hope you are having fun I may start a new thread on this for some of the pilots who were trained the "OLD SCHOOL" way and see what we come up with.

I want you to know that I am in no way " HACKING" your flight training If you ever are in the phoenix area let me know I will go up with you an show you what I mean. I will need to make a lot of posts to explain the meathods to my madness

I started a new student today also. This student has been flying around with his dad for a while but I still started him at ground ZERO today. He is learning in a 1948 C-120 Taildragger. I personally think the 141 programs can be fine especially if you are going to be a carrer pilot. I think for private pilots like yourself flying twice a week consistantly will be fine. most of my students do that and they are around 45-55 hours when they are done. Just don't stop and start or it will cost you. Also don't be in a rush to solo. Solo when you are confident you can handle anything that happens, not in the shortest amount of time.

All I want you to do is think about what I say, that is part of becoming a good pilot. Whatever you do don't get stuck into there is only one way to do things. You want to come up with what makes you the safest pilot you can be. None of us here know it all. the day you stop learning is the day you die.

From your other post and the one above I can already tell you are being trained to stare inside the cockpit. This is my problem with all of this advanced crap being thrown at private pilots.

I stated in my other Post " THERE IS NOTHING INSIDE THE AIRPLANE YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO FLY IT" Wait two things The flight controls and the throttle. And of course at your stage of the game the flight instructor. I will list below what I mean

ATTITUDE INDICATOR: don't need that the nose and wings of the airplane will tell you all you need to know

DIRECTIONAL GYRO: Don't need it. IF i am pointed north, West is off my left wing, east is off my right wing and south is the tail of the plane. If you want 45 Degrees just look halfway between any two. If you learn anything you should learn wet compass turns.

ALTIMETER: yes nice to have, required equipment but do I need it to fly the airplane... NOPE you should be taught to judge distances from the ground. Yes you need to be taught to cross check the instruments but not for a few flights.

AIRSPEED INDICATOR: nope don't even need that. Required equipment yes. Nice to have - yes but don't need it to fly. I teach my students to learn what airspeeds they are at using the attitude of the plane and the power setting.

Story: I think I posted this before but I will keep it short. A few years back one of my students rented an airplane and took a $100 Hamburger flight to sedona arizona. About half way back the airspeed indicator dropped to zero. He came into the office to give me the keys back and stated that it had failed in flight. When I asked him how he handled the problem, he just stated it was no big deal he just flew the airplane like I taught him to. He was taught to fly the airplane not stare inside the cockpit and depend on everything.

TURN COORDINATOR: Nope as I explained in the other post about it you don't need it you should feel the yaw of the plane in your butt. It has to be good for something right? thats what it is good for

VERTICAL SPEED INDICATOR: This instrument is 3-5 seconds behind the airplane. It is a good backup for instrument flying. VFR it is useless. If the ground is getting smaller you are climbing. If the ground it getting bigger you are decending.

THis brings me to another story. Years back when I just started working at my first FBO I needed to get checked out in the twin. THey had a piper seminole. The chief instructor constantly said that it would not climb on one engine. Every time he would cut the engine he stated that they would have to land on a road right next to the airport. " LOTS OF TELEPHONE POLES AND POWER LINES"

IT was my turn one day. We took off and about 200 feet above the ground he cut the engine. I cleaned up the airplane and went around and made it back to the runway. For about a year I ran this thru my head. " WAS I THAT MUCH BETTER A PILOT THAN EVERY ONE ELSE" the answer was and still is NO. But what did I do that no one else did.

The answer>>>>>>>>>>> I was looking outside the airplane

It took me about a year to figure this out. Everyone else was looking at the VSI, it was reading what the airplane was doing about 5 seconds before. right after the engine failure. As a result they all decided to pull the power back and land on the road. I was looking outside the airplane at the ground and it was getting smaller so I knew I was climbing. not a lot but It was still climbing. I was trained to look outside the airplane

ENGINE INSTRUMENTS: Ok I want them but do I need them to fly the airplane....NO

TACHOMETER: Nice to have do I need it to fly the airplane... NO you should listen for three specific power settings.

FULL POWER: This is what it sounds like when you are climbing.
CRUISE POWER: This is the sound of about 2400 RPM
DECENT POWER: THis is the sound of about 2100 RPM PLUS or MINUS depending on the plane

Once you start practicing landings you will add one more

DECENT TO LAND POWER: this is the sound of 1500-1700 RPM


So My flight today we went over.
1: The three attitudes of flight using the nose of the airplane and the wings to tell you what your attitude is.
a: Climb attitude
B: Decent attitude
c: level flight attitude
2: Power settings
A: Climb power full throttle listen to what the engine sounds like
b: Cruise Power If your plane is trimmed at climb attitude just back the power off till the nose goes level then re trim. It should be about 2400 rpm unless you are flying a radial engine
C: decent power. When the plane is trimmed at level flight and you have cruise power, back the power off till the nose drops just below the horizon. it should be the opposite of climb attitude. Depending on the airplane it should be around 2100 RPM

NOw listen to what all three sound like while you are looking outside the airplane

clearing turns: Here is a trivia Question. When doing your clearing turns before practicing maneuvers, what direction do you turn first. Right or left? And more importantly WHY?

360 degree Steep Turns. How do you know you turned 360 degrees? Before you start you line the nose of the airplane up on a point. Mountain whatever works for you. Start your turn. When you are lined back up on the mountain you have turned 360 degrees.If I want to turn 90 degrees to the left I line the row of rivets on the wing up with a reference point. Turn till that point is lined up on the nose of the airplane.

FLAT TURNS: This is a hand eye coordination maneuver my first aerobatic instructor showed me. I put it in my private syllabus. This teaches you to hold the wings and nose of the airplane level while bringing in full rudder and aeleron control inputs.

Since my student had been flying with his dad quite a bit we quickly went over slow flight and a few quick stalls we will be practicing them for the next few flights.

LAST, HOW DO WE GET HOME. The new taxpayer funded stadium for our terrible football team is just east of the airport. Fly a few inches to the left of the stadium and it will take you home

LANDING: I talked my student through the landing and he pretty much did it himself.

On final you are at decent attitude and decent power. As you get close to the runway slowely reduce power and maintain decent attitude. Trim the plane. once you cross over the runway look at the other end now slowly bring the plane to level flight attitude/ Wings level nose straight down the runway. when you feel the plane start to drop, bring the nose up to climb attitude. Touch down and KEEP YOUR FEET OFF THE BRAKES. Once you have total control of the airplane then very slowly apply brakes. once you are on the runway it is yours so use it don't get into the habit of getting off at the first intersection to make the controller happy

From your posts you stated that your instructor was giving you headings, you were looking at the VSI, The turn coordinator and worst of all on your first flight you are being taught to depend on a GPS. Here is your first IFR lesson. I FOLLOW ROADS.

My Point being that from day one your subcontious (SPELL CHECK) is being trained to depend on everything inside the plane. Learn to fly outside the plane. When you are trained to fly with nothing, when you loose everything you are right at home. When you are trained to depend on everything inside the airplane and you loose it you have a problem.

So let us know about every flight I will give you my input

airfreddy

 

By the way guys I let my students do everything from day one. They are paying me to teach them so the only way they can learn is to do. so

First of all I have a 200 Page syllabus that I have written over the past 20 years. This has everything they need in it. All procedures and everything, it explains attitude flying and everything also.

Pre flight: I teach them the walk around the first lesson. The next time they do it themselves. I do tend to pull some cowling screws and stuff to make sure they pick it up. If they don't i point it out.

Flying: The student is paying for it so I let them fly. I let them taxi I let them takeoff( I do help them with keeping it stright) I just talk alot when I am supposed to. Wings level Nose up Nose down etc and I talk them thru landing. Sometimes I have to help but I try and keep it as un noticable as possible.

Quick Taxi tip rob. When you are first learning to taxi, Sit on your left hand. you need to break the habit of driving a car as quickly as possible.

I also try and let the student think I am not paying attention so they know from day one that they are the ones that have to fly. in flight training you learn by doing and not watching me.

Make sure you do at least spin entries. Up until the time I sold my aerobat I did spins and basic aerobatic training( two flights with everyone that didn't over gross the plane). Before I would solo students Here is the story why

http://professionalflightinstruction.blogspot.com/2006/02/flight-training-to-spin-or-not-to-spin.html

If you can get an aerobatic flight in I would suggest it. By the way try and use an aerobat or something close. doing it in an extra 300 will be kool but you want something that is close to what you are flying now.

Don't do it right away but when you are getting close to solo and feel you have control of the plane then do it. It is a great confidence builder it teaches you to really fly the plane

airfreddy

 

Heels on the floor! Think " make cowboy's spurs ruin the carpets"

This is what I had been talking about.... Time to absorb the massive influx of info and to make the body coordinate with the mind, while doing same with the controls.

At this stage don't even think about the gauges. It will only mess you up, and you'll be spending more money and time unlearning your mistakes. Don't even glance inside. You are learning to fly the airplane, not become an "Instrument Pilot" .
You won't need instruments till you are well on your way to cross country flight. But not now. After all, some planes have only a compass.... The Wright Bros, didn't even have that, and they flew.... so can you, too!

People were flying, long before these modern conveniences (gauges) were invented to make flight in bad weather, possible.

I was the same way!
always looking to see what the Instruments were doing and how they related to what I saw out the front. Boy did that screw me up! Instead of concentrating outside the plane and keeping things on the mark, I'd sneak a peek at the Instruments and then I'd hear the Instr "wings level" or "200 feet above alt" or "keep it level". All this, because instead of concentrating on aviating as I should have been, I was looking inside and didn't notice the deviations from flight.

The instrument part will come in its own time. Concentrate on the view out the front window, and where to keep the horizon (pick that rivet to align on) that will take care of airspeed, straight & level, listen to the engine get to know the sound of 2300 RPM. This is the "feel of the aircraft. Use the altimeter to gauge the altitude, then remember what the view looks like. It'll take some time, you will make errors. But without errors you won't learn.

Umm.... I think that insteasd of tolerance, the best pilots have concentration.
That's what it takes to become ***almost perfect.

***(there's always room for improvement)

as far as not keeping everything on the mark.....

....think back to yourself as a toddler.... Did you learn everything you know today in one or two practice sessions??

Trim ... Ahh Yes! your friend ......IF.... you use it correctly. .....

There is an awful lot of intense concentration required to learn these skills.
One hour's training, mentally wipes you out.

If you feel confident in the air after only an hour or two, you will need to step back and rethink.
You have 17+ hours of progressively more difficult training to go thru yet.

I think, that perhaps you mean you feel "comfortable in the air" as in not fearful, as opposed to the 'confident'
"I can handle this airplane no matter what". Remember, you still have to land it....

All in all, you are doing OK so far it seems. Don't worry too much about the skills not yet acquired. They'll come with time.

and Oh yeah.... Keep the shiny side up.

 

Look at that first word. FLYING. That's what you are learning to do, not reading those funny clocks that never give you the same time when you look at them. Concentrate on flying the airplane and learn to coordinate the controls and make the airplane do what YOU want it to do. Start filing away the sensations associated with climbing, turning, stalling, and most of all straight and level. Associate the features of the airplane with the horizon when you are performing your maneuvers such as turns, steep or gentle. Feel what you are doing and respond to what the airplane tells you.
Don't worry about landings. By the time you get to that point you will have mastered the control techniques and the feel of the airplane at low speeds.......I hope. CONCENTRATE on what you are doing with the lesson at the time and don't think too far ahead. Concentrate and concentrate on the individual steps , not the entire program. Don't be afraid of landings NOW because you aren't going to have to do one now.
I think that ATTITUDE is prime, an attitude that YOU are in control of the current phase in your training and that after you master this phase you go on to the next and control that one, and the next.
When I was in the early phase of my training the only thing I remember monitoring was the tach and the airspeed indicator when I was beginning the steep turns and stall phase of maneuvers, the rest of the time I had to watch the horizon or targets ( clouds, etc. ) when I was doing 720's, deep stalls, or lazy eights.
FLY the airplane and enjoy what you are doing by watching outside and get the feel of what the airplane is telling you. All the instrument and radio stuff should come later.
I know that I'm an old flyer and that I don't fit things the way they are now but basics never change.
Switches

 

Just one small disagreement, if you please.

I completely agree that at this stage of your flight training, you must "keep your head out of the cockpit" and concentrate on flying the airplane completely by visual reference.

It is, however, NEVER to early to begin to develop an instrument scan. A good VFR scan which includes looking for traffic is as important to that regime of flight as a well developed instrument scan is to instrument flight.

Your visual scan should EXCLUDE flight attitude instruments but MUST INCLUDE your engine guages and altimeter. It makes no sense to be flying along happy as a clam with your oil pressure at zero. The silence which will follow will get your attention, I assure you. Other guages to inclusde in your VFR scan at this time will also include your fuel quantity, your alternator ammeter, your oil temperature, and your tachometer (to make sure that your throttle hasn't moved and changed the engine RPM). For all of these except the tachometer, you need not obtain a quantitative value, just make certain you are within the green arcs. for the tach, make certain it is set where you want it to be.

The only "flight" instrument I would include at this time are the altimeter and the airspeed indicator. You need the "performance" feedback so you can correct where you think you are with where you actually are. Being off altitude, i.e. not being where others will be expecting you to be can make an otherwise good flight into a bad day for all. And while you're at it, please don't forget your wet compass.

Learn to glance for only a moment at these, in a pattern which suits you and your flying style (as it develops).

Just leave all the other performance instruments alone. cover them up if necessary.

That being said, it is your instructor(s) who will detrmine if and when to integrate a scan into your regime. Good scans are a fudemental skill just as the fundemental skills of aircraft control. If you develop good habits from the beginning, they will stay with you forever.

Planeflyr

 

You are correct, Corey. I never meant that one should disregard the panel scan as part of the flying regimen but when there is an instructor with you and you are taking the incremental steps of mastering the controls and getting in tune with the airplane, there should be a minimum of inputs at that time. Too soon the student nowdays is hit with VOR, GPS, FAR's, blah, blah ad infinitum. At first let the instructor watch the gages for a while and then get the student into the habit and rythm of scanning the gages. Certainly airspeed and altimeter are important at first and it won't take long to develop the grasp of checking all the instruments. And then later, the instruments will be almost ALL that he will fly by.
I have to admit that that kind of flying ain't flying to me. Satisfying to accomplish but not much fun ( to me.)

 

I agree with Switches on this.
And what I meant, was as he specifies above.
( Sorry if that didn't come across. )
Let the Instr, watch the gauges. The student has enough input overload already, with :

" level the wings... nose up ... No, too high ...lower it.... keep the wings level... watch the horizon, don't climb, you're climbing...
stay at the same altitude... level the wings...nose too high............etc.

Remember, this is only hour two of his training.
He doesn't know what end is up after an hour....especially if it gets a little bumpy, and pushes him around in the thermals.

As I said, he should be concentrating on the BASICS....
Aerodynamics, angle of attack, & out the window references.

Instruments should (IMHO) come later, after he has a handle,
on control in maneuvering.

After all we don't teach "instrument out" flight till after they can
safely fly without instruments.

 

Rob,

Looks like you're on your way. Also looks like you are now needing to glance at least at both your altimeter and airspeed indicator for your constant speed airwork and pattern work. Good show!

Not wanting you to get too ahead of yourself, but <and I can't help but chuckle a little bit, no offence intended> your statement about not understanding about pitch for airspeed and power for altitude brought back some memories. Yes, it seems completely counterintuative because we are brought up in a world of the concept of more power equals go faster. It's true for cars, bicycles, and Capt. Kirks Starship Enterprise (Scotty, I need more power).

For right now, think of it this way. If you are flying along at a constant power setting, say 2300 RPM and you are trimmed for level flight, all the forces on your aircraft are balanced. Now think Newton - as in Isaac. If you unbalance one of the forces, something has to happen. Right? Since you are at cruise power, lets say you increase your RPM now to climb power, i.e. 2700. You now begin to go faster at first, more air molecules over the wing per unit time, causing more lift. If you didn't touch your trim the airplane would be going up and would settle out at the same airspeed you were trimmed at but in a climb. You would need to lower the nose (pitch) to maintain a constant altitude and place the forces back into a new equallibrium which would now be at a faster airspeed, hence the thinking that power controlls airspeed. Same thing would happen if you reduced throttle from straight and level. The airplane would begin to descend and would again settle at the trimmed airspeed you previously had. Once again, if you wish to maintain level flight, you'd need to raise the nose (pitch up) to maintian straight and level, but now you would be at a slower airspeed. The thinking again is that power controlled the airspeed. It did not. The pitch attitude (changing the angle of attack of the wing) did. don't worry about understanding angle of attack and how it affects lift right now. It will be come clear all by itself as you progress.

The physics of pitch and power controlling airspeed and altitude respectively are most noticeable during the landing phase of flight. When you are in the pattern, you are maintaining pattern altitude at reduced power. You had to add upward trim (pitch) to maintain your target pattern airspeed. You reduce power to descend (power controls altitude!). You now need to slow to approach speed. You bring the yoke back to slow down (adding more pitch and trimming off the pressure) At some point you'll reduce power to idle to continue the descent (power - altitude) and once over the threshold you'll again bring the yoke back to slow down (pitch - airspeed) until the aircraft is moving so slowly that the wing can not maintain lift and you settle to the runway. In fact the proper method of landing after the flare is to try to keep the aircraft flying (which of course it can not).

Let's go back to the final approach for a bit. If you find that you are too high and need to descend more otherwise overshooting the touchdown point, you reduce power (power - altitude) and conversely if you are too low you add power (altitude) so as not to land short. If you varied pitch for these purposes you would either speed up (lowering the nose and float down the runway) or slow down (perhaps to a dangerous speed) and land short of your touchdown point.

Lots of theory here. But the concepts will become quite clear and second nature once you start doing a lot of pattern work. Trust that it will all make so much sense that you'll wonder why you were ever confused - even a little.

Best of luck.

Planeflyr

 

Good job, Rob,

Sounds like you are enjoying the new experiences.

As planeflyr said,
"the concepts will become quite clear and second nature once you start doing a lot of pattern work.
Trust that it will all make so much sense that you'll wonder why you were ever confused "

As for the apprehensivness about the radio communications, ........
Everybody has been there... Just remember the person you are communicating with had a "first time" also.
He/she is no better than you. (even tho sometimes they act like it... )

It's just another thing that you will become used to.

The left turning tendencies.....

If driving down the road in a Ferrari, and it started to drift onto the next lane,
would you think about timing and pressure on the steering wheel?
Of course not. But you say "you've been driving for XX years"

To which I reply "Well, you've been flying for 3 hours....What's the difference??" '

When driving, you just make the car go where you want it. If you add too much steering, you slack off...

Same with the right rudder. Just apply pressure to the rudder when you need to.
If it doesn't straighten out enough, add more pressure.
If it starts turning right, remove some pressure.

Make the plane go, where you want it to go. That's the KEY!!~

 

Hey Rob,

Glad you have started your training! Its a blast! I remember being totally stressed out after classes, it took me about 8 months and 60 hrs to get my private. I was very part time.

Good luck and hope to see you soon,

Jason Miller

 

Just got my new medical last Friday and am trying to get my bi-annual review asap. I flew out of Meacham long ago but live next to spinxs (sp?) Are you flying out of NW?

I plan on getting back serious again and finishing up my instrument rating. I haven’t flown for close to a year now.

 

I want a russian Antanov AN2 with floats. I found one (without floats) in Hillsburrow a few weeks ago.. To me its the ultimate bush plane, super STOL and can carry a heavy load. And best of all they are currently cheap!

 

Rob:

If you can keep up the frequency of your lessons, you'll probably surprise even yourself at how quickly you start learn all that needs to be learned. I flew about 100 yours last year in training for my IFR. Every flight it seems that I learn something.

And, just remember that almost everything that you are learning now you will be using for years to come. The approaches that I have been practicing build on skills that I developed in my training for my private license.

It all adds up to make flying safe and enjoyable. Savor it now and later.