Rob's Private Pilot Training Experience | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Rob's Private Pilot Training Experience

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Mar 28, 2007.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Basically owners view is the plane comes in with too much nose down attitude for students to handle. He had two incidents where someone took the nose gear out hitting nose first.

    The instructors view, which I agree with, is the pilot needs to know how to use flaps, so train them correctly. The student shouldn't be making that mistake in first place if training is done correctly. The fact is a pilot needs the option of flaps in their bag of tricks.
     
    rob lay, May 3, 2007
    #51
  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

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    With 5000 feet of runway ahead of you, why must you use flaps? What's wrong with setting the airplane up in a stabilized minimum speed approach and land on the numbers? You can shorten an approach with a slip, lengthen it by putting the nose down or add power. Flaps on a really steep approach to a short strip.
    Am I comitting some sins here?
    Switches
     
    Bob Parks, May 4, 2007
    #52
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Like if I was that good. :D

    This is <3k foot runway and only 40 ft. wide. With obstacles you really have to get it down on the numbers. I have been doing that fine with wind, but it was eating my lunch Wednesday with no wind.
     
    rob lay, May 4, 2007
    #53
  4. rfking

    rfking Formula Junior

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    A normal landing is a full stall landing with full flaps....... Period.......

    Sorry - airplanes are meant to be flown above stall speed, and taxied below.

    Yeah - the tail is a little small on a P-51, but if you are flying anything else - forget about it!
     
    rfking, May 4, 2007
    #54
  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Well, Roy, I guess I have flown too many airplanes without flaps. They are helpful to those flying from short strips like Rob is doing, though.
     
    Bob Parks, May 7, 2007
    #55
  6. rfking

    rfking Formula Junior

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    I'm in favor of using whatever I have. I don't recommend this for novice pilots, but the difference between stall speed with and without flaps is often as much as 8-10 kts. If a full flap approach gets a bit hairy, I can dump the flaps in the flare and there I am - firmly planted 10 kts below stall speed, and well below the speed necessary to get a wing up for a ground loop.
     
    rfking, May 7, 2007
    #56
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Lesson 13
    Date: May 7th, 2007
    Hours: 0.7
    Total Hours To Date: 18.5 (0.5 PIC)
    Summary: Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    As planned just did touch & go’s at Northwest Regional. Goal is to get me more confident on the sidewalk landings. This was by far my most frustrating day. I probably had a short wick today, but the instructor really challenged me and was on me about every little thing. This is my backup instructor which is more than likely becoming my main instructor as the other changed his working hours. This guy is a young kid that is a great pilot, very knowledgeable, and teaches very well. However, he isn’t as laid back and trusting as the other. Here I’ve already soloed and he never was off the controls on approaches and I could feel his input. I was almost like, you land the plane then. Yes, it may have not been a perfect landing, but I’m not making perfect landings yet. I know what speed I need to be at, know to be straight at touch down, know to land on rears, and know to hold the nose off a little. The backup instructor hasn’t been with me the past 2 weeks when I was proving this over and over for 20 landings. I know I need to work on my Northwest landings, but I think it is little stuff he can be hands off and then on the climb talk over what could have been done better. I need the confidence I’m doing these 100% myself because next thing is local solos from here.

    We have same thing planned for Wednesday and if he’s confident with my landings then, I can go up solo from Northwest.
     
    rob lay, May 7, 2007
    #57
  8. planeflyr

    planeflyr Karting

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    I've been reading through the past few posts regarding to flap or not to flap. To that end I'd like to add some comments.

    I completely agree that the pilot should be taught to adjust his or her technique to the conditions at hand and to the equipment being flown. Not all aircraft are alike and not all fly in the same manner with and without flaps extended. Cessnas, for example, have a low wing loading (i.e. a lot of surface area and lift). Therefore the effect of the application of flaps on a typical 172 or 182 is even MORE lift and the tendancy to float, especially if your airspeed is too high. More judicious use of flaps may be the rule considering other conditions. Most Pipers have less wing area and will not float as far when full flaps are used. The benefit of slowing down the aircraft without the penalty of floating is a good one and the aircraft will settle nicely to the ground.

    Wind and especially crosswinds play probably the most important role in the proper application of flaps. With larger and perhaps squirrely (that's an aviation term) crosswinds less flap is definately warranted. The last thing you want is a plane rapidly loosing airspeed and floating down the runway and having less airspeed for full rudder authority. BAD NEWS (as well as evening news) will follow. Also, by using less flap and raising the stalling speed you are less likely to come off the ground again without flaps thereby "planting" the airplane and keeping it under control.

    What I like to do when the winds are strong and across the runway is to use either no flaps or when really bad use takeoff flaps. With takeoff flaps, if the approach begins to come apart, application of power will have the aircraft in the best configuration for a go around and make it less likely that anything bad can happen. Too much flap and you will not accellerate fast enough, too little and you don't get the lift fast enough. It is, after all, a judgement call.

    Remember, most accidents are a result of the failure to control the aircraft upon landing.

    Cessnas do have a more pronounced nose down pitch when flaps are applied vs. Pipers, hence the need for making sure to keep the nosewheel up in order to prevent a wrinkled firewall and expensive repairs. These ocurrences are quite common.

    One thing which wasn't mentioned, and which I will mention now, is the high altitude landing. An airplane isn't of much use if youi can only travel around low lying areas. Some day you will want to visit the high country. Among the many things flying the high country requires is the recognition that takeoffs and landings will have a significantly higher ground speed than the indicated airspeed due to density altitude. Add a summer day and I assure you that your perspective outside is that you are really moving fast. That's because you are! As such, most landings (wind permitting) use full flaps. High speed landings on the runway allow for the potential of loss of control after touchdown, especially if the aircraft is not perfectly aligned. In addition, takeoff flaps (usually 10-15 degrees) are a necessity to get the airplane unstuck from terra firma at controllable groundspeeds.

    I'm sure I could go on and on for a while longer, but as I think I previously said it is up to the PIC. No two aircraft are alike and no two situations are alike. The important thing is to fully understand the theory, and the performance characteristics of the aircraft being flown and adjsut accordingly.

    Planeflyr
     
    planeflyr, May 8, 2007
    #58
  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Lesson 14
    Date: May 9th, 2007
    Hours: 1.3 (0.7 PIC)
    Total Hours To Date: 19.8 (1.2 PIC)
    Summary: Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    So from the most frustrating lesson Monday to the best one I’ve had yet today. This one feels even better than my first solo. To start off I didn’t think it was looking good, they had changed us to a G1000 Skyhawk. I have only had one lesson in the glass Skyhawk and they did this so I can’t start getting experience with it, but I wasn’t sure a day I might solo some more would be the best day! :D

    We went up and did about 3-4 touch & go’s. They weren’t bad, but still making little mistakes, even had a couple go arounds. Mistakes were still the problem of too much airspeed or correct airspeed and too high. Of course when too high and you aim the target, then your airspeed will then be too high. Still tried forward slips, but I was slipping with nose too low, so not helping us any on speed. Mistakes towards the ground were straight on touch down, keeping the nose off slowing, and then keeping down the center. Those mistakes weren’t happening every time, but out of the landings that’s what I did wrong at least once. Last couple instructor simulated engine out by pulling power, so that made it a little harder not having the throttle handy.

    We did a full stop, taxied back to run-up and instructor got out. Sent me on my way, said go to practice area for 30 minutes and come back for touch & go’s. Alright then, several firsts for me at once. First solo from Northwest, first time local solo to practice area, and first time solo with G1000. No problem, I was confident. Nice takeoff, flew pattern around, left Northwest Regional area to the NW, listened in to Alliance for approach traffic, stayed just N of Justin, and then went a little NW of Propwash. Started with S-turn at 1,000 AGL and 100 kts. S-turn came out great. On to point turn. I haven’t perfected these with the instructor and I definitely wasn’t perfect with them solo. Did 3-4 and there might have been some mild improvement as I did them, but still much more practice needed. This was fun because with instructor I have done almost zero looking around and enjoying the view. For the point turns I actually picked out things like neat houses as the point and maybe, just maybe, enjoyed myself a couple seconds with the view. :D

    Time to go back, beautiful clear visibility, so even from 15 miles had no problem spotting the Northwest white roofs. Of course between Propwash, Alliance, and Texas Motor Speedway right there directions weren’t a problem. Cruised back 2,400 RPM’s at about 1,500 AGL. Called into Northwest for midfield crossover and I initially planned a 270 onto downwind, but changed to just a 90 as a plane was taking off. Turned left, wasn’t rushed as last time I did a 90 to downwind from midfield. Checklist and then on the numbers pulled the power and trimmed. Everything went well with rest of downwind, crosswind, but I don’t think my downwind was long enough. About 200 ft. higher than I needed to be on approach, so not anywhere close. I did a little forward slip for practice, but knew this one was a goner.

    Next time around extended downwind a little, all went well, but still a little high on approach, put in more forward slip and I knew it could have been made, but why take the risk. Just enjoy the flying and get the approach right. Went around, this time instructor got on radio and encouraged me to take an even longer downwind. The planes were just floating today. Did a long downwind and visually the approach looked way low, but just a tad of power maintained 65 kts. and then when sight picture looked right pulled the power back and everything was setup PERFECT! Came in low right over the fence, perfect speed, lined up, eased her back, nice touchdown not too far past the numbers. My only self critique is I need to learn holding the nose off longer to slow down, but I also have it ingrained not to let her fly again. It will take practice and experience to find that right balance.

    So a great day, Saturday I have 2 hours to local solo practice. Back on a non-glass, so now a little nervous about all the Saturday traffic around Alliance, Propwash, and the area. Looking at the traffic radar sure makes you feel more comfortable. I saw a plane on radar close by 2 minutes before I visually could see him and it was a clear day. He passed going opposite direction only about +300 and 1500 off.
     
    rob lay, May 9, 2007
    #59
  10. imported_mjc123

    imported_mjc123 Rookie

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    Any one recommend to you to switch to the G1000 for the remainder of your training? I learned in a G1000 as I figured I would rarely (and so far never) fly a plane without a glass cockpit. It certainly improves your situational awareness, and learning how to use the Garmin logic is best done at C172 speeds.

    I am trying to find the time to get out to your aviation school and take the aerobatics course. They have told me to drive out there the first few times rather than fly as it can be a bit.....stomach churning. Can't wait!!! Great way to improve stick and rudder skills though.
     
    imported_mjc123, May 10, 2007
    #60
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Besides my discovery flight, this was only second time on the glass. From here on out I will do about 50%. I'm glad I learned the regular instruments, but the glass spoils you. I don't think I'll ever be able to buy a plane without glass.

    The owner's son Gilbert does all the aerobatic training I believe. Gilbert started out as my backup instructor, but is turning into my main one as other instructor changed his hours. I like Gilbert, he's young, but is an excellent pilot and very precise and comprehensive on his teaching. Within next couple weeks I'm going to do spin endorsement with him in the Super Decathlon. Down the road I want to do tail wheel and some aero work.

    If you want, I can put you in touch with someone I know on internet doing aerobatic lessons with Gilbert.
     
    rob lay, May 11, 2007
    #61
  12. rfking

    rfking Formula Junior

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    All in good time Rod - don't make the mistake of thinking that flying is like taking up "golf." It is a totally different environment - you have spent __ years operating in a 2 dimensional universe. Don't think that overnight with 20 hours of experience you will immediately graduate to be able to think and operate in a 3 dimensional one. Give it time.

    Enjoy your flying experience and don't be in a hurry. I encourage all of your expressed goals, but SLOW DOWN.
     
    rfking, May 11, 2007
    #62
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Lesson 15
    Date: May 12th, 2007
    Hours: 1.1 (1.1 PIC)
    Total Hours To Date: 20.9 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go’s

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    Beautiful morning to fly. FBO opens at 8am, flight was scheduled from 8-10am. They’re busy first thing Saturday morning and all the planes have to get pulled out. Didn’t take off until 8:40. Hung in the area east of 287 between Propwash and Decatur. S turns went well, still need perfection on the point turns. Just enjoyed the flying. Tons of traffic, every little private airport in the area seems to use the NW frequency. Was in middle of S–turn and had to abort and hold course from another 172 to keep safe distance. Headed back to SE and called up Alliance around Propwash for touch & go clearance. They gave it to me, but called straight in to 16 R. I thought about it a second, at NW wind had been 350 at 4 kts. I first called a wind check and it came back like 330 at 4 kts. I thought about it a second and then called back, please confirm again you want a 16 R landing downwind? Tower quickly came back and said that they would switch to L pattern for 34 L. Now that sounded better. :)

    Best touch & go at Alliance was the first one. Other two weren’t great, but no go arounds. Cleared back out towards NW. Ton of traffic on the radio, but finally snuck in a call approaching 45 for L downwind for 35. I was #3 and came in, a tad high and fast, but quickly corrected with a forward slip. Not perfect landing, but not bad, power in and went around. Then a landing to full stop, maybe 5 kts. fast and not on the numbers (not bad idea for 35 at NW :)). Parked the plane and once instructor got back from another lesson, we did a quick debrief.

    Monday starts some advanced skills like the shortfield stuff and flap landings. Also cross country coming up quickly.

    I came back today and all I could say is, wow, this flying stuff is pretty cool. The local solo is very enjoyable.

    Attached are some quick pics from today. To be honest, taking good pics are about last thing on my mind right now. ;)

    First is a little private grass strip in practice area called Fairview. Second is turning to final for Alliance 34 L. Third is Texas Motor Speedway.
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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    rob lay, May 12, 2007
    #63
  14. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Lesson 16
    Date: May 14th, 2007
    Hours: 1.1
    Total Hours To Date: 22.0 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: short and soft field take offs and landings

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go’s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    A fun dual lesson. Short field take offs and landings over obstacle. Also soft field take offs and landings. First I’ve done this myself, although I had seen it demonstrated in previous lessons. Really no major problems with the take offs. Little surprised on the soft field takeoff and the immediate left turning tendency. I guess more sudden attention grabbing because we were trying to keep it down in the ground effect. :) Landings were good, I haven’t done flap landings in several weeks and these were much better than last time I tried. Nothing much else to say about lesson, instructor said I did well, but especially the landings need much work IMHO.
     
    rob lay, May 14, 2007
    #64
  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Lesson 17
    Date: May 16th, 2007
    Hours: 1.2
    Total Hours To Date: 23.2 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: VOR Nav, IR stalls, IR unusual attitude recovery, autopilot

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/14/07: Lesson 16 - short and soft field take offs and landings (1.1 hrs)
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go&#8217;s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go&#8217;s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go&#8217;s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 &#8211; taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight &#8211; fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    Fun lesson, learned the VOR, tons of time under foggles w/some recoveries, and autopilot. Went to 4,500 which is highest I've been yet, also went out by Bridgeport Lake which is pretty. Amazing that at 4,500 by Bridgeport you can see all the way to Bowie to the North, FW to South, and NW/TMS area to east. Wow. Autopilot is really slick. All to's and landings today were practicing short/soft field.
     
    rob lay, May 16, 2007
    #65
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Lesson 18
    Date: May 18th, 2007
    Hours: 1.1
    Total Hours To Date: 24.3 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: IR VOR Nav, Chief Instructor progress check

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/16/07: Lesson 17 - VOR Nav, IR stalls, IR unusual attitude recovery, autopilot (1.2 hrs)
    5/14/07: Lesson 16 - short and soft field take offs and landings (1.1 hrs)
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go’s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    Back with my first instructor Brad, who is assistant chief, so can do the progress checks. He gave me news he landed a full time corporate jet gig in Temple. I'm really happy for him, he has a jet owner client up here and then has been doing the CFI too. Sorry to see him leave, but I've already transitioned over to Gilbert when Brad changed his hours.

    I picked Brad because he had 4k hours and looked like he wasn't going anywhere over the young guns with only a few hundred hours. I got my pick wrong, but it has still worked out to have Brad's laid back perspective and Gilberts by the book technical approach. I'll finish up with Gilbert, not sure who will be best to backup Gilbert now, Gilbert is there almost full time and doesn't change schedule much.

    Nothing special today, did one each of soft field takeoff and landing, then short field takeoff and landing. Practice area with about 30 minutes under foggles doing everything from navigation, stalls, and recovery. I won't do it myself, but was a blast when Brad did an emergency descent down a private grass runway. If the owners were looking out front window, they would have seen our Skyhawk falling out of the sky from 2000 AGL in FULL forward slip. Wings were at about 45 degrees and we were pretty much looking out the side window down to a few hundred feet. It would have been perfect soft touchdown on the numbers. Maybe not Red River sand bar touch & go fun, but close. :D

    I did excellent on everything but the soft and short field landings. I just learned them Monday, so I need plenty of practice and very few flap landings under my belt either.
     
    rob lay, May 18, 2007
    #66
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Lesson 19
    Date: May 21st, 2007
    Hours: 0.8
    Total Hours To Date: 25.1 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: Wind, soft field, & short field extra practice

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/18/07: Lesson 18 - IR VOR Nav, Chief Instructor progress check
    5/16/07: Lesson 17 - VOR Nav, IR stalls, IR unusual attitude recovery, autopilot (1.2 hrs)
    5/14/07: Lesson 16 - short and soft field take offs and landings (1.1 hrs)
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go&#8217;s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go&#8217;s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go&#8217;s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 &#8211; taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight &#8211; fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    The 18 kt. gusts and 3500 AGL canceled our Spin Endorsement lesson, so I volunteered we just spend some time doing go arounds at Northwest. Nothing new, but great practice in the strong wind. Each time around he would cut my power for simulated engine out, he kept doing it earlier and earlier until once he did it in my turn to downwind. Only once did we have to add power because we wouldn&#8217;t have made it. The last landing he demonstrated the capabilities of the plane pulling the power downwind only 600 AGL. 30 degrees of flaps and only went past the numbers maybe ¼ mile for base. Beautiful landing and fun as heck that much bank and forward slip. He put it down right on the numbers. Seemed in control from the plane, but I bet it was a sight to see from the ground.

    Rest of week is getting ready for Saturday short cross country. Might try to sneak in the spin training if weather is good.
     
    rob lay, May 21, 2007
    #67
  18. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    Let me know if you do a XC to Stinson in SA - there is a good restaurant on the field.
    We'll all come out to view our hero.
     
    snj5, May 27, 2007
    #68
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Location:
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Lesson 20
    Date: May 30th, 2007
    Hours: 2.2
    Total Hours To Date: 27.3 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: Dual cross country

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/21/07: Lesson 19 - Wind, soft field, & short field extra practice (0.8 hrs)
    5/18/07: Lesson 18 - IR VOR Nav, Chief Instructor progress check
    5/16/07: Lesson 17 - VOR Nav, IR stalls, IR unusual attitude recovery, autopilot (1.2 hrs)
    5/14/07: Lesson 16 - short and soft field take offs and landings (1.1 hrs)
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go’s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    Ouch, it has been 9 days since I flew. Week ago did 2-3 hours of ground in prep for cross country. Saturday it got weathered out. This evening the weather was perfect. Flight plan was 52F to ABI. Straight shot with ref points every 10-20 miles. Cleared through Class D AFW, over Eagle Mountain lake, leveled off 4,500, over Springfield, and then North side of Mineral Wells. Used visual references along with VOR’s. Wow, I was overwhelmed with flying the plane (no autopilot or GPS allowed), watching outside, and then watching and crunching numbers on the flight plan. I only heard from instructor to “be easy on the controls” when looking inside about a dozen times. Every time I looked down, the plane would usually start moving down, but it never held straight and level. :confused: Finally got more confident with letting the plane fly itself all trimmed out and then even without hands just using rudder to keep on course.

    About 10 miles past Mineral Wells, instructor gave me scenario weather is coming in and we need to divert (he just didn’t want to fly ALL the way to ABI :D). I was hungry, so Stephenville sounded good to me, I’ve never flown there or eaten at Hard Eight BBQ. Had chart out, from Mineral Wells VOR figured where I was, put the flight computer edge on direct course to Stephenville and then figured the direction. We called into FSS and changed destination. Approached Stephenville, took me a little longer to find it, I was looking NE of town from what the map showed, but visually it was more east with city all directions but east. Entered pattern upwind, made a great approach, perfect altitude and airspeed until final. No flap landing I was at about 70 kts., but just a tad high. I should of got aggressive on the controls and slipped it earlier, but maybe from my car racing, I like to be smooth. Well, I maintained airspeed OK, but still high and then I figured we were too high to slip until instructor encouraged me a slip even that low was just fine. So 150 ft. off we gave it a severe slip and made a nice landing.

    Parked the plane and off in the cart to Hard Eight. Wow, what fun, can’t wait to bring my wife and friends. Ordered and ate up, then planned the trip home. On way home he was going to let me use GPS and also get flight following. We also used auto pilot. Wow, how easy. Could really watch the charts and gauges better while also enjoying the view outside. Highest I’ve ever been at 5,500. Very fun dodging a few scattered clouds. Center took us right through Class B corner (I know, won’t be able to do as student) and then back over Alliance and nice landing at Northwest. When leaving Alliance we called out for them to close our flight plan, but I guess they didn’t as I got a call on drive home.

    Not sure how much ground I will cover next 3 weeks. I’m very busy, 5 day vacation through next weekend, and the weather outlook is still looking grim. Oh well, will do best I can. Night flight scheduled for tomorrow and then night cross country Monday. Plan is my first solo cross country Wednesday. Well, not sure how much of that we’ll actually get accomplished before my vacation.

    I like this flying stuff, going somewhere at 110 kts. and eating BBQ. :)
     
    rob lay, May 30, 2007
    #69
  20. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Lesson 21
    Date: May 31st, 2007
    Hours: 1.5
    Total Hours To Date: 28.8 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: Night practice

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/30/07: Lesson 20 - Dual cross country (2.2 hrs)
    5/21/07: Lesson 19 - Wind, soft field, & short field extra practice (0.8 hrs)
    5/18/07: Lesson 18 - IR VOR Nav, Chief Instructor progress check
    5/16/07: Lesson 17 - VOR Nav, IR stalls, IR unusual attitude recovery, autopilot (1.2 hrs)
    5/14/07: Lesson 16 - short and soft field take offs and landings (1.1 hrs)
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go&#8217;s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go&#8217;s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go&#8217;s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 &#8211; taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight &#8211; fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    Well, cross country yesterday was a blast, and tonight in the dark was fun too. Took off at 9pm out of Northwest, out to practice area. Did steep turns, stalls, and unusual attitude recovery. He also threw in an engine out. Also just in general talked about VFR flight at night and taking advantage of all your resources. A ton of lights, but also a ton of dark out there. I think only option with engine out is airport or road, no way you can see well enough for fields.

    Flew back towards Alliance and got straight in clearance for 16R. I was confused for a long time 3-8 miles out trying to find Alliance, I could see the Northwest rotating beacon and make out TMS, but only saw Alliance at about 3 miles. Wow, things look so much different at night. I have a bad astigmatism and was concerned about my night vision, but I had passed my medical and I was surprised how well I could actually see tonight.

    We did 5 stop and go&#8217;s at Alliance switching up between landing PAPI (sp?) between the lights on 16R and no indicator on 16L landing on the line lights. We also did plane lights on and off landings. I could actually see ground better on the lights out. Back to Northwest did 3 landings and it was easier than I expected. Landing at Northwest in the day still isn&#8217;t easy for me. The lights are also way off the pavement, so looks wider and coming in lower than you really are. Everything went well and even did one simulating engine out. At Northwest I can easily see how you get in trouble with night landings. Coming in on 17 could see absolutely nothing of the hill and trees just short of the runway. Approaching really tough to see exactly how high you are, but thank goodness for the VASI.

    So everything was great and had a good time, I had been really anxious about flying at night, but really not a huge deal except visual navigation is near impossible and I know that area up and down. GPS really was almost required IMHO.
     
    rob lay, May 31, 2007
    #70
  21. imported_mjc123

    imported_mjc123 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Amen to that! I hit the Hard Eight whenever I can! as a matter of fact they're catering my 35th Bday party next weekend. Pork Chops yum!

    I just get there a little quicker, 180+ knots in the Cirrus.
     
    imported_mjc123, Jun 2, 2007
    #71
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    bragger! :D
     
    rob lay, Jun 2, 2007
    #72
  23. verted_dirt

    verted_dirt Rookie

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    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
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    Just curious as to which 141 school Mr. Rob Lay is attending
     
    verted_dirt, Jun 4, 2007
    #73
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

    Joined:
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    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Marcair Aviation at Northwest Regional (52F) in Roanoke, TX.

    http://www.marcairaviation.com
     
    rob lay, Jun 5, 2007
    #74
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

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    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Lesson 22
    Date: June 4th, 2007
    Hours: 2.1
    Total Hours To Date: 30.9 (2.3 PIC)
    Summary: Dual night cross country

    Previous Lessons Summary
    5/31/07: Lesson 21 - Night practice (1.5 hrs)
    5/30/07: Lesson 20 - Dual cross country (2.2 hrs)
    5/21/07: Lesson 19 - Wind, soft field, & short field extra practice (0.8 hrs)
    5/18/07: Lesson 18 - IR VOR Nav, Chief Instructor progress check
    5/16/07: Lesson 17 - VOR Nav, IR stalls, IR unusual attitude recovery, autopilot (1.2 hrs)
    5/14/07: Lesson 16 - short and soft field take offs and landings (1.1 hrs)
    5/12/07: Lesson 15 - Local solo, practice, Alliance & NW touch & go’s (1.1 hrs)
    5/9/07: Lesson 14 - Dual practice landings at NW, then local solo (1.3 hrs)
    5/7/07: Lesson 13 - Touch & go’s at Northwest Regional (0.7 hrs)
    5/2/07: Lesson 12 - Chief Instructor checkout for local solo (1.2 hrs)
    4/30/07: Lesson 11 - First Solo!!! (1.7 hrs)
    4/25/07: Lesson 10b - completed check review, 7 touch & go's in 60 degree 15 kts wind (1.2 hrs)
    4/23/07: Lesson 10a - G1000, check review, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/21/07: Lesson 9 - emergency procedures, ATC pattern drills, 4 touch & go's (1.4 hrs)
    4/18/07: Lesson 8 - foggles, 45 degree turns, forward slips, 3 touch & go's (1.2 hrs)
    4/16/07: Lesson 7 - practice slow flight/stalls, 8 touch & go’s w/ATC (1.6 hrs)
    4/14/07: Lesson 6 - instrument w/foggles, s-turns, slips, crosswind (1.6 hrs)
    4/11/07: Lesson 5 - rectangle, circle, crosswind (1.3 hrs)
    4/4/07: Lesson 4 - Radio, stalls, ATC taxiing/com (1.3 hrs)
    4/2/07: Lesson 3 - Takeoffs, radio, ground effect control, pattern/approaches (1.3 hrs)
    3/31/07: Lesson 2 - Flight maneuvers & go arounds (1.1 hrs)
    3/28/07: Lesson 1 – taxiing & basic flight maneuvers (1.0 hrs)
    2/27/07: Discovery Flight – fly around & touch-go (0.5 hrs)

    Flying cross country is cool, flying at night is cool, and flying cross country at night is really cool. Amazing that you can see 30+ miles. Hard storms came through about 7-8 pm, but sky was all cleared out by 9 pm. We took off about 9:30 PM. Flight plan was Northwest to Graham (67 nm). Straight shot, towns and VOR intersections as waypoints, we did have a glass Skyhawk too.

    So overall the flight was a great experience and I learned a ton. After the flight instructor asked me to grade myself and I said a 'D'. He was a little surprised, I said it was a good lesson, but I made too many mistakes. Maybe it just seemed like many mistakes because he was really hard on me and pointing out every little thing. However, there were some big mistakes too. I was behind the airplane first 10 minutes taking off, getting on heading, opening flight plan, transitioning through Alliance Class D, and then already recalculating at first waypoint. My biggest mistake was breaking a few hundred feet up into Class B. The plane was getting altitude quicker than I thought and when doing everything else I wasn't on top of keeping the plane below B. I was also 1000 ft. behind what I thought the actual shelves were, there's no excuse for not knowing the actual alt and location, I need to be more careful.

    I learned much more about the G1000, this is only about my 3rd flight with it. Once up to altitude and done with the busy stuff I was flying the plane well, but that's the easy part. Instructor spent the time showing me more on the G1000 like all the views, leaning, GPS Flight Plan, timer, scrolling deeper and higher for level of information, and VOR setup. Flew simulated G1000/lights out for awhile.

    Neither of us had flown into Graham before, even in the daytime. The beacon and 3/21 were very visible, heck Olney was visible from there. I eventually ended up OK without instructor input as he wasn't helping, telling me I was PIC, but I changed my mind about 5 times on the pattern and which runway to use. Had hardly any wind, so that didn't force the decision. I initially thought about 45 to upwind for 3 just to give the airport a complete look. However, everything was very clear and I was confident we knew everything we needed on the airport, so changed to 45 for the downwind on 21. Problem that I was 400 ft. high on the 45 close to the downwind. So made mistake I entered pattern a few hundred feet high, but corrected by cutting power early instead of at the numbers. Then by the numbers we were setup perfect. Why with first time either of us had been there, but instructor was still challenging me that we had a taxi/landing light outage. No big deal, from before I almost think visibility is better without the landing lights. Landing was smooth but a little off center. I was actually on the aileron centering us when the touchdown surprised me. It was a perfect cross wind landing, but there was no cross wind. :) Still smooth, we just hit before I thought we would visually.

    Taxied over to closed FBO and shut the plane down, just stretched the legs and closed the flight plan. Got back in, taxied out to 21. Setup COM's for what we would be using and entered a GPS Flight Plan. We didn't do a FSS Flight Plan, but did get Flight Following. Feel so unworthy in Skyhawk sharing radio space with the big boys. Another problem contributing to my 'D' grade is radio work. My radio work is great local at Northwest uncontrolled and even at Alliance controlled. However, I need to do much better at transition call through Class D and Center. Center is especially challenging with intimidation factor, they're busy quick talkers, you are listening to them calling you between their 10 other flights too, and then all the hand offs.

    Back home to Northwest safe and sound. Good flight, each leg about 40 minutes total and we burned 12 gallons for the complete trip. We pulled up the Skyhawk range circle with our full tank and we could have made Mexico. :)
     
    rob lay, Jun 5, 2007
    #75
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