Rob's Instrument Training Experience | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Rob's Instrument Training Experience

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Jan 25, 2008.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,648
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Lesson 15
    Date: April 15th, 2008
    Hours: 1.4
    Total Hours To Date: 17.8
    Summary: Approach block progress check

    Progress check with another CFII to go over everything in the approach block. Very gusty bumpy day, but makes for a good challenge. Started with the GPS 35 at Denton circling to land 17. We then went around to PINK for procedure turn and then did the ILS 17. Headed over to Decatur and did the VOR 17 to missed.

    All went well, it was more another perspective from another CFII than a progress check. He did have to insure I had all the skills covered so I can now move into XC's, but he also taught me some new things.

    I'm still way behind on my ground lesson, so it might be a couple weeks before I start my XC's.
     
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    59,648
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    Rob Lay
    Lesson 16
    Date: April 27th, 2008
    Hours: 3.9
    Total Hours To Date: 21.7
    Summary: Cross Country 52F TPL ILE AFW 52F

    First instrument XC. I'm exhausted, so won't be very verbose. First time we've actually been on the radio with clearance delivery and center, so instead of pretending, today was the real thing. Departure took us from Northwest almost directly over downtown Ft. Worth towards Temple, our first stop. Weather was coming through and I got my first actual! Category 1-2 rain and a little bumpy. With the tailwinds our ground speed was 150 kts and higher. We shot the VOR approach into Temple, another new landing spot for me. After touch and go we headed to Kileen and did the ILS. The weather was really getting more hairy there, we didn’t get good visibility until later stages of the approach. We went into the flight center there and took a look at weather on internet. After another call to clearance delivery and took the departure around the MOA and then back to GPS for Alliance. Again they vectored us almost over downtown Ft. Worth and keeping us low at 3,000 MSL to avoid the busy skies above us. More than once I wondered where our off field would be.

    A great first XC, many things I was apprehensive about before now don’t seem like a big deal after really doing it. A good experience, but still a ways to go. I only did about 50% of the calls and instructor had to correct me here and there for little things.

    Here are the Flight Aware trackings, strange how it didn't pick up anything close to Temple and Kileen.

    http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N985GE/.../1810Z/52F/KTPL

    http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N985GE/...2010Z/KILE/KAFW
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    59,648
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Lesson 17
    Date: April 29th, 2008
    Hours: 1.7
    Total Hours To Date: 23.4
    Summary: Approaches VOR/GPS/LOC/ILS

    Actually a ground breaking (not literally!) lesson for me. I have been a little frustrated the instructor has been quick to correct me, did most of the radio communication, and basically just hand held me through everything. Well, that has ended, this lesson was to do 4 approach types flying out to Decatur and then Denton. He kept quiet long enough for me to make mistakes and then see if I was able to identify on my own and correct. I also did most radio communication.

    So as you would expect I started out a little flustered and "behind the plane". I was making a few little mistakes heading out to Decatur. He pretended to be approach control and would come on the radio "Cessna N735RR please say altitude". Doh! I would find myself 100-200 off. I was fumbling the auto pilot where we would climb through the specified altitude, usually because when I changed the vertical speed it would disarm the altitude catch. I also found myself slower to setup and find things on the GPS when he wasn't talking me through it.

    So we made it through the Decatur VOR 17 without any major mistakes and then he vectored me to Denton. I talked to Denton tower and was a little better, but still slightly behind. I was better off just hand flying the thing as it gave me one less system to worry about and my feel is good enough now to multi-task while still maintaining alt, heading, and speed.

    We did the GPS 17 missed back again for LOC 17 missed and then touch and go on last ILS 17. Was worn out by trip home to Northwest, but had progressed from someone behind the ball when not babied to someone that is starting to do things start to finish solo. Over the next 12 hours will just fine tune everything we've done and hopefully each flight there is a little less of "Cessna N735RR please say altitude". :)
     
  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    59,648
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    Lesson 18
    Date: May 2nd, 2008
    Hours: 2.8
    Total Hours To Date: 26.2
    Summary: Cross Country 52F GDJ MWL XBP LUD AFW 52F

    I've been sick past 5 days, just now able to post about my 2nd IFR XC. After last lesson instructor let me do most of the radio and didn't baby me through everything. I did well from what I can remember. This XC was meant to challenge me by first leg being 50 nm and then less and less time each other leg to get ready for next approach. We did a variety of approaches, my first landing ever at Mineral Wells, did some missed approaches, did some circle arounds, and did some holds. All went well, but I was worn out by the end, not sure if I was already getting sick or all of this made me sick. :D
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Lesson 19
    Date: May 10th, 2008
    Hours: 1.8
    Total Hours To Date: 28.0
    Summary: Cross Country 52F MWL DTO in actual

    Well finally got some solid actual. A good 1.0 of the 1.8 was in the cloud layer hanging around 3-5k yesterday morning. Much fun and found out those thick milky clouds are a little turbulent. Filed our IFR plan, took off 52F VFR, and then picked up departure. Looked like they were going to give us a hold at MWL because another Marcair plane was 15 minutes ahead doing same route. However, they cleared out in time and we got straight in for the MWL VOR 31 circle to land. No visibility problems once we got down.

    From MWL they were trying to send us to the Bowie VOR. That added a ton of time and miles to our trip, finally when they put us back on 118.1 we got direct to DTO for the ILS 17. Great flight, really hot and bumpy, but getting some actual in made the day. Instructor is pushing me hard to study and take the written before we move on too much more, but I'm just short on time right now.
     
  6. ghost

    ghost F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    10,043
    Singapore
    Did you take a break from IFR training Rob, or just haven't had the time to post an update?
     
  7. Dr C

    Dr C Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2002
    480
    Kansas City
    Full Name:
    Ed
    I was wondering the same thing. How's the IFR training going Rob?

    Dr C
     
  8. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I've still been flying instrument practice every 9-10 days, but haven't had time to take the written. No hurry, taking my time. Good news is once I get the written out of way I'll be ready for the checkride, I was ready for the checkride months ago, but need to prepare for the written and oral.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    10,043
    Singapore
    I hear ya on that Rob. When I resumed my PPl training I thought I'd be able to get it done very quickly given my level of comfort with flying, even taking into account the high-performance aircraft I was training in.

    However, I quickly found out how behind I was in my theory and had to spent most of my free time mugging for the written and oral. It is definitely more comprehensive than one initially believes.
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    59,648
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    Rob Lay
    Lesson 20
    Date: May 11th, 2008 to February 22nd, 2009
    Hours: 23.1
    Total Hours To Date: 51.1
    Summary: Ongoing approach practice and written exam

    After my lesson on May 10th, 2008 I was required to pass the written before we could do the long XC and then check ride prep. I read through the Gleim slowly, but just never motivated to study very hard away from the airport. Too many distractions and I had already accomplished my main goal of becoming a better VFR pilot by fine tuning my instrument usage. So for the 9 months I would try not to go longer than 2-3 weeks without an instrument instructor flight to keep my skills up. The majority of those were just shooting approaches with a few practice area maneuvers. A few times we filed and did some actual. Below are my practice instrument flights in this period...

    5/19/08 - 1.3
    5/26/08 - 1.5
    6/11/08 - 1.1
    6/21/08 - 2.3
    7/2/08 - 1.6
    7/19/08 - 1.8
    8/9/08 - 1.4
    8/23/08 - 1.9
    10/22/08 - 1.8
    11/8/08 - 1.3
    11/22/08 - 1.5
    12/6/08 - 1.4
    1/2/09 - 1.0
    1/17/09 - 1.3
    1/31/09 - 1.5
    2/7/09 - 0.4 (Skylane G1000 actual)

    So I spent this weekend doing the Aviation Seminars instrument exam prep and passed the exam tonight with a 87. Saturday we have my long XC planned. With all the practice I've had the past 9 months I'm actually up to 66 approaches. I feel very good about all the approaches, holds, and procedure turns. If anything, I will need to sharpen up the maneuvers like DME arcs, stalls, steep turns, partial panel, and upset attitude recovery.
     
  11. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
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    James K. Woods

    Good for you, Rob - you beat me by 2 points on the IFR written! (and I made a 100 on the private written). That instrument written is one tough test.
     
  12. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    100 on the private, wow! this is actually about what I got on the private, which really disappointed me. I grew up interested in flying having a few discovery flights and the Cessna training kit from when I was 13 years old on. I then took Aerospace as a science elective in H.S. plus tons of MS Flight Simulator time. So after that base and going through the Cessna King training and reading the Gleim twice through, thought I could come close to acing it. Was scoring 90-97 on practice exams not taking my time. Like this instrument test I really don't think the study prep books and classes keep up with the exam 100%, in both cases there were several questions I had never seen or at least worded much differently.

    I went on FAA site last night and past few years average on Private about 84.5% with 85-90% passing and Instrument 82.5% with 85% or so passing. I think easy tests to pass, but always impresses me when I hear people getting 95+ as lets face it, the FAA questions and answers aren't perfect. Many have multiple right answers, you just have to pick the best one. For example, one question talked about rate of turn, if you read the question in context rate of turn is like 2 minutes for 360 standard rate or 4 minutes for 360 half standard rate then there is an obvious answer, but it is wrong. You have to read rate of turn as the bank to get the right answer, why would you say rate of turn when it is confusing with something else when bank would have been clear. :)

    I'm OK with 87, but was a little surprised it wasn't in the low 90's as happened with my Private.

    Also, on FAA site I looked up the ones I got wrong and they don't match at all! The codes they gave me are questions that weren't even on the test and most of them if they were I would have got right. I need to talk to FAA or my school about that.
     
  13. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
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    James K. Woods
    Well, that private score was in 1968, the year after I graduated High School, and I would not care to try to repeat it again today.

    I remember that it got me one of the toughest private check rides ever to be seen at the school - mean old WW2 transport pilot who didn't like to see these young whipper-snappers get uppity.

    The funny thing was, I took several months of Instrument Ground, studied hard for it, and finally took one of those 3 day weekend cram courses at a motel. Way more work than I did on the private. I was actually pretty glad to have just passed the thing - that was in 1981 or so.

    I actually think that the FAA puts deliberate tricks in those "close but no cigar" answers. I remember questions where only a careful reading of the magnetic deviation would ferret out the right answer and other such playing around with your head.
     
  14. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    This is what I'm talking about re accomplishing something with your flying. I was never smart enough to do this.
    SWITCHES
     
  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #40 rob lay, Feb 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Lesson 21
    Date: February 28th, 2009
    Hours: 4.1
    Total Hours To Date: 55.2
    Summary: Long Cross Country 52F CLL CRS AFW

    A great day, strong winds made the approaches a nice challenge. Confident on almost everything now, two minor mistakes today were snaking my back course approach into CLL with the turbulence and then confusing myself a little out of CRS as AFW was to the Northwest, but our route was first to Northeast towards CKY VOR. On the back course approach I didn't have any problems with the reverse sensing, I was just over correcting and snaking fighting the plane so much. Out of CRS just lost my situation awareness for a little, I knew going Northwest was wrong, but for a minute couldn't wrap my head around going Northeast. Otherwise flight planning, filing, ATC communication, and the approaches went great.

    Check out our ground speeds heading South with the strong tailwinds, ATC came on and asked if we were a RG Skyhawk. :) Coming back we paid for it though. The Flight Aware screen shots are in order 52F - CLL, CLL - CRS, and CRS - AFW.
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  16. drjohngober

    drjohngober Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2006
    2,040
    Cville and Gbury Tex
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    Dr.John Gober
    Very nice Rob. i noticed you went into Corsicana. I grew up there.When my father was mayor, they renamed in Dave Campbell Field after a prominent physician and pilot. That was at least 20 years ago. Dr. Dave still calls me on my birthday every year to see how I am doing. How did Corsicana look? Coke machine finally working in FBO?
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    cool, we actually ran into the FBO and I read the plaque about the renaming to Campbell field, I think maybe 1985 or it may have been related to the terminal construction. Airport is great and nice little museum in the terminal. Rough looking crop duster sitting out on the tarmac, not sure if even flyable, but sure looked like a bunch of fun.
     
  18. drjohngober

    drjohngober Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2006
    2,040
    Cville and Gbury Tex
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    Dr.John Gober
    85 is probably right. Time flies. There are several friends who have nicer planes ( King Air) and a Hughes Helo, but besides that not much exciting. I started flying there in 80 in a Cub, now based at a grass strip towards Waco.
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Lesson 22
    Date: March 3rd, 2009
    Hours: 1.1
    Total Hours To Date: 56.3
    Summary: partial panel ILS, GPS, and hold

    Just a quick after work flight to start the partial panel lesson. Out of Northwest simulated vacuum pump lost with covered attitude and heading indicator. Practiced vectoring by timing turns and remembering UNOS (Undershoot North Overshoot South) to finalize the heading with compass. We then shot the ILS approach which isn't a big deal at all without attitude and heading, all needed for course was GPS to get close and then once locator came in all normal. We then shot the GPS approach still with simulated vacuum pump lost. Again, zoom in on GPS and watch locator all that is needed. A few holds and back home for nice short flight. Saturday will be a long lesson finishing off the other partial panel approaches and then starting to practice check ride maneuvers.
     
  20. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #45 Bob Parks, Mar 3, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
    I can appreciate what you are doing, Rob...and anyone else who is getting thier instrument rating. A magical accomplishment.
    I had one IFR experience in a none IFR airplane while flying up the Sacramento River Canyon from Redding to Dunsmuir. It was broken clouds and rain when we started and as we ascended the climb to Dunsmuir it got worse. I hugged the left side of the canyon to maintain visual contact that was fleeting at its best. My attention was aroused when I saw several transmission towers go by fairly close and I tried to stay low enough to go under any wires that may have been stretched across the canyon. As we got to the top of the canyon near Dunsmuir we suddenly entered a heavy rain squall. A white out. I established a slight rate of climb. Locked in a heading on the compass, and kept my eyes glued to the airspeed and altimeter. That's all the airplane had other than cyl. head temp. and oil temp. I did the best I could to keep everything locked in and after what seemed to be an hour we broke out into bright rain with brief contact with the ground. WE were off heading by 10 degrees, right wing low , and heading toward some rocks on the other side of the canyon. I kicked myself for flying into a deteriorating weather condition in an airplane that wasn't equipped to operate in such conditions. The pilot wasn't either. So, you will be the complete and sensible pilot by getting your instrument rating.
    SWITCHES
     
  21. saleenfan

    saleenfan Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    595
    No Where
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    I mean no disrespect by this but I'm sitting here laughing my butt off reading this because many of the things your are saying are exactly what i went through. I just picked up my CFII and am teaching students now but I can see them thinking the same things you are thinking and its funny to me.
    I LOVE IFR flying nothing beats going up and getting some actual, although it sucks here now cause its so damn cold and I have had my one run in with icing and I would like to keep that number at one.
    I think I have you beat with the 172 for ground speed though I hit 178 going with the wind and 6 going against the wind, it was dang near 60 knots aloft made holding a real challenge.

    Fly safe and enjoy it
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Lesson 23
    Date: March 7th, 2009
    Hours: 1.9
    Total Hours To Date: 58.2
    Summary: partial panel VOR, LOC, hold, and maneuvers

    Wind was perfect for today as I'm fine tuning my practice and need the challenge. Started out with DME arc to the inbound course for XBP VOR approach partial panel. We then went back and did several circles of the hold partial panel. Headed towards Denton and on way did slow flight, stalls, and steep turns under the foggles. We finished off with the ILS 17, but glide slope was out, so continued with LOC minimums. This next week we will do several ground sessions preparing for the oral. After that it will be practice check ride with instructor, then same thing with chief instructor before scheduling examiner.
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Lesson 24
    Date: March 18th, 2009
    Hours: 1.9
    Total Hours To Date: 60.0
    Summary: instructor check ride prep

    Simulated a check ride with my instructor. Planned out a XC. Departed for the XC and then diverted doing GPS and then VOR into Decatur, then shot the ILS and GPS into Denton all partial panel, and then on the way back home did steep turns and unusual attitude recovery. Did everything well, mistakes were checklist related stuff. Forgot to adjust the heading indicator runup and check RAIM before the GPS approach. I have gone back through my Skyhawk checklist and added everything needed for instrument flying.
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Lesson 25
    Date: March 21nd, 2009
    Hours: 1.5
    Total Hours To Date: 61.5
    Summary: chief instructor check ride prep

    Simulated a check ride with the chief instructor. I've never had a flight with the chief instructor go well, especially for check ride prep. I remember my flight with him for the Private well. Some of it is just flying with someone besides the regular instructors you are use to, they do everything a little differently and some communication gaps. The other is the chief wants to challenge you as much as possible, I believe you could be doing everything perfect and he will set something up so you make a mistake. I have no problems with the approach, you need to be over prepared before the actual check ride. I didn't fly very well either. I made a bunch of mistakes.

    I planned out a XC, things didn't start well when he ripped my flight plan to pieces. Same type I've always done and my CFII instructors liked how I did it. No problems with the route I chose, but he wants me to use more line items for fuel, not to get more accurate fuel projections, but when things change in flight to be able to more efficiently trickle down the new numbers. My line items basically went Top of Climb (include taxi, run-up, takeoff), Fix 1, Fix 2, Fix 3, Destination, 15 minutes for approach, and then 45 minutes reserve. The chief wants me to line item taxi/run-up/to, top of climb, fix 1, fix 2, fix 3, top of descent, destination, 15 minutes approach, and 45 minutes reserve. Just a little more detail and I like the advice. Also to figure descent, approach, and reserve fuel at max plane burn, not efficient burn. Again, good advice, with flying be as conservative as you can.

    On the ramp I set the plane up well for the route, where I messed up was not adjusting everything after the clearance. The clearance had me departing off a different VOR radial, I didn't even put that VOR in until airborne. I also had a hard time getting to the radial, I never knew you could configure the GPS to show you where a radial is, which of course the autopilot can then follow. Another good lesson learned.

    I nailed all the steep turns and upset attitude recoveries, but again learned something I hadn't been doing with my CFII. On recovery my goal was just get the plane level and stable again. Well chief wants it to the next level where you need to be on the same heading and altitude you were before, which is of course what would happen in real life.

    Next mistake that took me a minute to figure out while trying to get the autopilot direct to the IAF was flipping from NAV to GPS, plane was following the VOR. This is something so common and you flip back and forth between NAV and GPS, but for some reason I was slow to pick up this time.

    we hit the IAF and he cleared me for the procedure turn. Procedure turn was at 2500' and we were at 3000'. I started descending and he got on me as he hadn't cleared me for the approach or to descend yet. To be honest, until that point through all my instrument flying I thought if you were cleared for the procedure turn, then you were cleared for the procedure turn altitude. Lesson learned.

    Final thing was our partial panel GPS approach into Denton. It was OK, but Denton was so busy and we were approaching opposite of all the traffic. Our circle to land per tower instructions was 2 mile out crosswind turn, downwind was within the 1.3 miles for our plane, but downwind to base because of all the traffic had us 3-4 miles out. A little unsettling being 450 AGL that far out from airport, I kept inching up to 650 AGL for my personal comfort, but he was on me for not sticking to the 1100 MSL.

    So yes I got hammered, but I learned a bunch. We'll see which examiner I get and then I'll do one more flight shooting approaches at that examiners airport of choice.
     
  25. ScuderiaShield

    ScuderiaShield Karting

    Sep 20, 2008
    155
    Full Name:
    Matt
    I found the key to success during my instrument training was to stay well ahead of the airplane and the information flow. Having all the coms, VORs etc all setup before departure.

    Just out of curiosity, why are you using autopilot for training? I understand that if it is there, it's fair game on the checkride but I've never known a person to bust for choosing handflying over using autopilot on a checkride.
     

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