"collector's car" term thrown around at drop of hat

Time did tell something about the 250 GTE.
Time said it wasn't as desirable or collectible as the 250 SWB for people who have an interest in those cars, nothing more, nothing less and supply and demand took care of the value part.
Hell if you have an original slinky in the box it's collectible and maybe even valuable to the right person and at one time it was the butt of jokes and ridicule as a stupid idea. So time changed peoples perception and today some see them as cool nostalgia.
You seem to be on some kind of a misson CharlieHorse, so have at it. I am done with wasting my time lol.

 

I would argue that a 250 GTE is not simply a used car like a Volkswagen Type III. I'm no expert on vintage prices, but I'd guess that you'd be hard pressed to get a show-calibre 250 GTE for the price of a modern Porsche 911, so the market puts some value on the rarity and handcrafted nature of that car.

There are many degrees of collectibility, and the more beautiful 250 SWB will rate higher than some of its homelier siblings.

Again, I think you're attributing too much significance to the term. You're also using price as a proxy for collectibility -- something you should explain. The 365 GTC/4, though no Daytona in terms of looks, is a six-figure car in fair condition, and it is hard to attribute that price to buyers looking for a sensible daily driver. It has some significance as part of the era when Enzo Ferrari was running the show.

I think it's fair to say that the 348 today isn't held in much esteem as something to save for posterity, and the 360 is possibly the first "mass-produced" Ferrari. But the bottom line is that 20 years from now there will still be people who regard a 348 Competizione in top condition as something worth owning with an eye toward preservation. Clearly it will never be a 250 SWB, or an F40, but it is the sort of thing someone buys for its rarity and not for use as transport.

There are plenty of examples of cars that were "used up" -- Porsche Speedsters, the low end of the Porsche line in the 1950s, languished for a long time. Now, everyone would agree they're collectible. So, don't dismiss time as the key.

 

Agreed. I suggest that you guys watch the BBC special in which they interviewed Napolis and his story about the one F car he wish he would not have sold. He mentioned buying a Ferrari in the 1950's for $4, put a ton of miles on it, and sold it years later for, I think $14k. Sounds like a great deal right? Well, then Jim mentions that of course nobody back then ever expected these cars would turn out to be worth $2.5 million today!

It's a guessing game, sometimes you may be right, sometimes wrong.

 

Collectibility of anything is highly subjective. People collect all kinds of things from McDonalds kiddie toys to rare butterflies to stamps to soda pop bottles. Therefore any kind of car can be collectible. I believe the issue the OP is alluding to has to do with rarity and availability.

 

I agree with the major premise of this thread. In the current day, as soon as an owner thinks they have a 'collectible' or future 'rare' car ....... neuroticism sets in ...... and all the driving fun goes out the window IMO .

My .02¢ is about 'low miles' on the high volume models, which turns out to be one of the ways owners try to 'artificially' create a 'rare' car. Of the lower list, what value is it if over half of a model are 'low miles' and some even by mechanical interference ?? It is then not a 'rare' car, just a car no one drives ...... .

IMO too many lower list f-car owners are involved in a contrived speculative 'staring' contest ...... ........... which ruins it for the 'driving enthusiast' like me ............. I guess I will take my lumps with mileage because my reason for buying an example was for 'driving euphoria' not as an overpriced lottery ticket ........ .


.

 

I like the notion that an increase in value is coupled with any collection.
At a party I was talking to a fellow that said he had a collectible Ferrari. I asked which type. He said a 328.
I kept me mouth shut. The 328 is a wonderful car but that prior to that I never considered it to be "collectible".
But why not ?
It will assuredly increase in value, is cherished and polished, at most are used rarely.

 

Ah, but you're assuming the same relative values will hold "tomorrow" as today. It wasn't too many years ago that the Dino was considered a step-child and just a used car. 6 years ago, the Boxer wasn't too much more expensive than a 328. If the 328 should suddenly skyrocket in price, does it then become collectible in your eyes? What of the eras when few if any Ferraris were expensive cars? If by some chance tomorrow the values of gasoline-powered cars drop through the floor, does that change the collectibility of the 288?

Rarity, I think, isn't a strong argument. There were fewer Mondial 8 coupes built than F40s. There are certainly many fewer MINT Mondial 8 coupes than most other models -- does that rarity make it a highly collectible car?

As a last element, I think that word doesn't mean what you think it means

 

Challenge Stradale ... a modern day collectible

No?

G

 

"will be" or are they collectible now?

G

 

I suspect we're defining collectibility in this thread as the prospect for price appreciation. I don't know that I agree, but either way it is unknowable.

Looking back on Ferrari history, every two-seater that I can think of has become more desired over time, and you could argue that up to the 308/TR era they weren't all that reliable or driveable -- i.e., the better cars are precisely the ones that you've said will never be collectible.

I'm sure there's some stew of rarity, desirability and fashion that makes certain cars collectible. Clearly Hondas don't attempt to compete on any of these -- Ferrari builds lust objects, Honda builds excellent appliances.

 

There's one term that hasn't been mentioned in this conversation that may bring some validity to the OP's view of what is collectible. I believe the Daytona has it but the GTC doesn't, the CS has it but (IMHO) 575SA doesn't, a 250 GTO has it and the 348 doesn't.

A truly collectible anything is generally "coveted" by others, again, IMHO.

G


cov·et (kŭv'ĭt)

v. cov·et·ed, cov·et·ing, cov·ets

v. tr.
To feel blameworthy desire for (that which is another's). See Synonyms at envy.
To wish for longingly. See Synonyms at desire.

v. intr.
To feel immoderate desire for that which is another's.

 

True, but people covet a variety of cars to different degrees. There are probably enthusiasts who would rather have a 365 GTC/4 than a 575 SA or 360/CS, just because the older car was built by hand under Enzo's watch.

To take the 348 example, that car is coveted by a lot of guys simply because it is a Ferrari and looks/sounds exotic. It doesn't have to be as "good" as a 250 GTO to create some sense of stewardship among owners, although I admit most of the 348s I've seen get driven hard and often.

 

If you have only one of something, is it a collection?

 

Speaking of coveting, how many people covet something because other people covet it? Would they still covet a GTO if no one coveted them like when they were uncoveted by all and left to rot in fields and in the rear lots of high school shop classes?

The covet popularity process is an odd phenomenon, much like the placebo effect with medicine.

 

I divide my cars into 2 categories - ones that I keep for a long time (my collection) and ones that I turn over pretty quickly. How does a car get into my keeper category? Simple - I have to like it a lot, bond with it in some way, feel really happy when I drive it for the first time after letting it sit for a while. I don't care if other people covet the car. I don't really care about its' value or prospects - I expense every car that I buy. Over time I care about whether the hassle factor of owning the car is substantially below the enjoyment factor. So far the cars that have found a secure place in my collection are obvious ones like the Daytona, 288 GTO and F40 and less obvious ones that I simply like (and am teased about because it is not readily apparent why I would be attached to them). I suspect that my 430 Scuderia Spider will be the next addition to my collection based on how much I like my 430 Scuderia.

How do other collectors decide what to keep as part of their collection?

 

I'd say "collectible" would refer to a class of cars that are worth more than the sum of their parts. My Dodge Neon is basically an appliance, like a washing machine or a toaster. It's not collectible because 1) there's nothing unusual about it and 2) there's no commonly-held belief that it is special.

The Testarossa I'm trying to buy would satisfy #2 above, and so it could be considered a "collectible car," although you could make the case that since it's stock, red/tan, and they made a lot of TRs, it doesn't satisfy #1. Doesn't matter if there's a good reason for it - it's a collectible car if enough people say it is.

 

Let me try the following definition:

a collector's Ferrari is the Ferrari that Ferrari experts (ie, those people that have previously owned several Ferraris) would want to have in their garage irrespective of price, and consider the best Ferrari.

This definition overcomes the problem of "the most desired Ferrari": probably the most desired Ferrari is a 348, since it is cheap and it enters into the radarscreen of many people.