Catalytic Converter issues and fraud

The three years since the inspections does NOT preclude you from suing. In law, there is the "discovery rule." In sum, it means that your statute of limitations will not ordinarily run until you knew or "should have known" that the cats were, in fact, empty and not in compliance with the law. In my view, fraudulent smog certifications function to "keep you from knowing" about your cats. Take action against both places that issued fraudulent certs (let God sort them out). As for informing the Attorney General: most certainly do that too. It will not be considered extortion. (yeah, innocent consumer versus lying, cheating business, no way on an extortion claim). California has a DTPA which allows you triple damages for their lies; consider it.

Andrew
(blood sucking lawyer)

 

LOL! I have to respect a guy with that tag line! My hat is off to you Sir.

 

And how do we know the owner himself didnt hollow them out, found it wouldnt pass smog, found the cost unbearable and decided to feign ignorance and blame someone? Not saying this is what happened, but if someone came after me three years after I sold them a car and started accusing me of fraud, threatening to sue me, threatening to call the FBI, EPA etc., on me, its the first question I would be asking. Especially in light of the fact he swapped mufflers.

But i'm beginning to see a very sad picture here. So many of the members of this forum are sue happy its downright scarey, and it gives me great pause to consider selling either of my 308's to anyone within the states. While I would be lying awake worrying what I could be sued over, you guys would be lying awake trying to figure it out. Litigate away gentlemen, litigate away.

 

So what have we learned from this kids? As Brian pointed out, make sure they check the cat's visually during the PPI.

 

Well, consider your misfortune a blessing in disguise.
Imagine how mush more $$ you could have lost had you stayed with your previous shop/mechanic....
At least you now have a perfect running F355 and will be kept this way as long as you stay with this little "shop in Glendora"

 

My point is that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can come onto Fchat and rip on a Mechanic shop, how they did this, or they did that, and just as in this case, without any real evidence as to "whodunit". Its about the equivalent of a big fish story without the fish to back it up.

Those cats are very expensive. And maybe this should be a wakeup call for everyone, that not only should owners take thier cars to well trusted shops, but that you shops out there should start photo documenting ALL your work. Its far to easy for a dishonest customer to gut thier own cats and blame a reputable shop, and its far too easy for a shop to swap gutted cats into a customers car so they have good ones to resell. Maybe even to sell you back your old ones?

 

Great to hear your car is still running well Kirk.

 

Are you serious?! People pay good money to pass a car with no cats. What you should REALLY do is take the car to the place that passed it, and have them pass it again.

 

How does a picture of a catalytic converter, empty or not, prove anything? There is no way to prove that the part in the picture is the one from that particular vehicle. No way to prove that the "good" one photographed is actually the one that was on the car when it left the shop. I don't see the value.

 

I guess the bright side is that he doesn't need to buy a test pipe

 

My guess is that picture would be used in conjunction with the testimony of the person who took the picture.

"I took the picture on __ date and it was on vehicle VIN number __."

That's one way to prove it. If the trier of fact (judge or jury) believes the testimony, voila, it is proven.

 

Ultimately there is no real way to prove anything. But there is so much litigation associated with these cars that it would be wise to document all work a person does on one of these cars for someone else, and to back it up as much as possible with photo's. Likewise, an owner would be wise to do the same before offering it for sale, or sending it off for major work. It may not hold up, but its certainly better than nothing, especially when no one trusts anybody and where there is such a large amount of questionable work going on.

If the shop had pictures of the cats as well as pictures looking in that show enough in the background to identify the car, it might be enough proof if there is a question.

 

Amazing, what a story.
Glad you finally got it repaired correctly Kirk. It's shame to hear service horror stories like this and the illegal activities that go hand in hand with those shops.

Fraudulent smog cert's only cost you more in the long run.

Kirk, you have pm.

 

"Fraudulent smog cert's only cost you more in the long run"
Never cost me any more in the long run, as long I have it signed off, I dont care and I dont have to take off the test pipes. And when and if I sell the car, tell the new buyer, no problems.

 

whoever said contact the previous owner... you are on CRACK! AND you are so incorrect its not even funny. If you called me and told me your story about how you bought a car and 3 years after etc... you failed emissions and you tried to blame me... id say prove it and see you in court... by the way my attorneys are... and we will be entering a countersuit once we have been found not guilty and will be seeking restitution and damages. My attorneys are on retainer and are awaiting the summons. Do you prefer bagels or doughnuts because i will bring some to the hearing...

trying to sue and contact the previous owner is an absolute joke. You have ZERO legal recourse against them since they never even sold you the vehicle AND since the car passed through the hands of two certified specialists as well as smog stations they have all the plausible deniability you could ever want.

The dealer isn't even really on the hook for this one... you swapped exhausts and have owned the car for 3 years... If I were the dealer which has proof that the car passed emissions in there possession once and then another outside of there possession I would gladly hold your hand walking into court that day. Id just paint the picture of you wanting to improve the sound and performance of your car by installing a TUBI and then possibly when you were not satisfied you had the people hollow out your cats as well to gain what you were looking for. Now in these tough economic times, you are finding that you need to pass emissions and have failed emissions and the car needs 7k dollars to make it right... and you are on the hook for a massive mistake you made. Just remember that unprovable mud can be slung in both directions. Except that the fact that the car passed twice, and even once in the hands of someone who is an independent party. Also, the FBI doesn't care... they aren't going to waste the resources on something like this. An alleged non violent crime that occurred 3 years ago... it aint happening

 

just realised the OP was from several years ago... sorry I got all worked up. i would delete my post but the edit button isn't appearing... only the quote button. weird.

 

It cost us all in increased emissions as well as in decreased in the reputation of all us auto enthusiast. You can increase the performance of your car more by taking a drivers school anyway. And, it's a crime making the one that knowingly obtains a fraudulent smog cert a criminal...is that the example you want to be for your children?

 

Now.. from another point of view..

... if you had found you had brain cancer.. then you'd have a f***ing problem..

... but hollow cats.. give your heads a shake..lifes too short for this sort of s**t..

... suck it up.. replace them with hyperflows from Daniel.. and enjoy the car.

... sorry for the rant but thats how I feel.. J

 

its called as is, where is. you buy it, or you dont buy it. good luck trying to "sue".

euro cars are legal in my State. you California guys must get ulcers from all the stupid crap you have to worry about.

buy euro.

do a ppi.


drive the freaking car.


try to smile, you have a Ferrari.

 

Hollow cats beat clogged cats any day - just ask your local fire department.

No car inspections at all here in South Carolina.

Also means no ugly stickers on the windshield.

 

you only have a limited time to "edit" or "delete" your post. once that time is up, only a Mod can delete at your request.

 

ahh thanks for the clarification!


I still stand behind what I said...