Redline 10-40 in my 308. too thin, or ok?

I started using Rotella T synthetic 5/40 in my mid-80s 911s I had per a conversation I had with a industrial oil engineer who I met on the Pelican Porsche forums. When I first took possession of the 308 I was apprehensive to put anything into the sump that might have been foreign to it so of course I kept using 20/50 Pennzoil per the statement from the original mechanic. This past summer I put the Rotella in and the engine runs very well just as it always has, but I notice the oil does not get quite as dirty as it used to, and consumption has gone down. I will of course post the lab results in a couple months once done.

 

directly from Shell. thought someone might find it interesting:


"It is true that ROTELLA T Synthetic is Group III (not PAO) based, but you must keep in mind that not all Group III base oils are created equal. ROTELLA T Synthetic is made with Shell's XHVI base oil, which unlike other Group IIIs does not begin as distilled crude oil, hence of all Group III base oils, XHVI is truly the only one that can legitimately be called "synthetic." XHVI is a wax isomerate, meaning that it is made from the slack wax removed from distilled crude in normal solvent dewaxing. This slack wax is catalytically transformed (isomerized) and hydrofinished into a chemically pure base oil which rivals PAO in virtually every category. There are other "synthetic" oils out there based on Group III, but Shell's is unique in that it uses XHVI base oil. Chevron and Petro-Canada produce Group III base oils that come close to XHVI, but even though these oils are all hydroprocessed and utilize the same type of isomerization technology employed in the making of XHVI, they are not the same thing. Only XHVI is made from pure petroleum slack wax and its CAS number is 92026-09-4. The CAS number for the more typical all-hydroprocessed Group III base oils is 64742-54-7. If you want to know what your "synthetic" oil is made from, take a look at the MSDS and look for these numbers. (The CAS number for PAO is 68037-01-4).

In brief, don't be so quick to dismiss Rotella T Synthetic as just another "synthetic pretender." It's made with the same base oil as Shell's Helix Ultra, and everytime you see Ferrari win a Formula 1 race, that's the oil in the engine.""

 

The concern I get when my car is warm and the pressure drops to zero at idle, isn't priceless.

 

I really do not take into account what my oil pressure sensor tells me on these old cars. My pressure at operating temperature with this oil shows up the same as any other oil I have used. The VI on a dino oil shows it is more likely to break down at higher operating temperatures making it <50 weight at that point than that of a quality 40-50 synthetic. That combined with the beating these engines can take at times makes me far more likely to go with the same base stock oil F1 engines use rather than something that can possibly break down over time with hard driving. Just my .02

 

Current Red Line racing oils contain 1 - 2 percent zinc and the regular formulations contain 0.6 to 1.2 percent zinc depending on the selection.

Although I very much like and have used thin Red Line oils, I have changed. I am now using thin Renewable Lubricants Incorporated, RLI, biodegradable vegetable oils in all my cars. The Enzo is running 0W-30, the Maybach 57s and Murcielago are running the 0W-20. My wife was very reluctant to allow me to move away from her Red Line 5W-20 in the Murcie. But she was happy with the RLI and noticed a marked difference in how smooth and quiet the engine has become. Previously one could not think that the engine could be improved from the Red Line. It was much better than the OEM Agip and some better than the Mobil One used early on.

aehaas

I should add that RLI oils have been shown to work particularly well despite high fuel dilution, typical of cars that are carb'ed and used less on the race track then designed.

 

Very interesting. I seem to remember something by Dr. Haas somewhere on F-chat where he or his neighbour (both with Enzo) were testing the effects of using something like Wallmart oil and see what deposits were to be found after 3000kms or so, with rather surprising results.

Question:
3X8 engines were not built with the fine tolerances of today, hence the factory recommendation for a somewaht thicker oil at temp.
What influence (if any) do these tolerances have on the mechanical stability of the thinner oils?

 

Call Brad Penn and ask if they have a local distributor...that's what I did and they actually started one once they found out I was interested in their product. If there is no local distributor, they will discount their shipping

 

Oils from the 1970s and 1980s thinned a grade or two after just 1,000 miles. Cars spec'ed for a 30 grade oil were running on a 20 and cars spec'ed for a 50 were probably running on a 30 grade oil. If you assume the wear is not excessive then certainly a 40 grade oil of today will give better protection than a 50 grade oil of yesterday.

Here is a link to the Enzo oil comparison:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=1017407&Searchpage=1&Main=78849&Words=enzo&topic=0&Search=true#Post1017407

Note here that the OEM 10W-60 Shell oil thinned to a 40 grade oil after just over 1,000 miles of use on the street. Note that I have MUCH less wear using a 30 grade oil. There is almost no wear at all. I have seen oil results (using the recommended oil) showing levels of wear that are 20 times higher than even those seen here with the Shell oil.

aehaas

 

Reaper,

1 bar is one atmosphere (14.7 lbs). So 5 Bar is 5*14.7 or 73.5 lbs.

Hope that helps.

My 308 runs around there or maybe even less with Mobile1, 0-40, at idle and hot.

 

At the risk of sounding pedantic, a bar is 14.504 psi.

 

Under controlled conditions the older oils thinned markedly. If you added the effects of severe fuel dilution and other contaminations then the viscosity could be even less. Oils of today are better in every way that an oil can be measured -compared to oils from back then. Do oils of today degrade? Yes. But they degrade slower and to a lesser extent. They can handle contaminations better with less ill effects.

aehaas

 

The major benefits of synthetic oils is that they are able to withstand higher temperatures for longer periods with less oxidation, as in race track conditions, not urban driving. These oils also thicken less when you shut off your engine as they have higher natural viscosity indexes. This also makes it possible to use little or no viscosity index improvers and thereby reduces thinning with initial use.

Modern oils whether synthetic or mineral based that are SM or SL rated have similar wear rates despite all of the many "superior attributes" of synthetic oils. I personally like semi-synthetic oils as Motorcraft 5W-20 Semi-synthetic oil blend - as my every day oil to use for just about any car.

I use synthetic oils mainly for their less viscous nature, less honey like viscosity, at room temperature, at my start up temperatures. The RLI 0W-20 I am using now is almost like water at room temperature, yet still way too thick for normal operation.

With this knowledge I feel comfortable stepping on the gas before the oil temperature is up to the normal operating temperature. I can "Floor it" when I am pulling out of my neighborhood. Based on my oil analysis of several cars, I have no wear worries in this department and if anything get far less wear than the next guy.

aehaas

 

I don't know if I quite "floor it" before operating temperature is reached, but I certainly feel much better about the flow and protection of synt at lower temps. I was under the impression that quality oils sort of, "turn on" once higher temperatures are reached and that is when they are at their best.

 

one more thing AEhaas. Are you not concerned about the hths in such a low weight oil in your other vehicles? Three Exxon researchers found that a minimum HTHS of about 2.8 mPA.s was the MINIMUM HTHS viscosity needed for normal wear, or is shearing not so much of an issue in auto engines as it is in say motorcycle engines.

 

Motor oils have multiple additives that work at different temperatures to cover the gamut.

HTHS was thought to be important in studies done 15 and 20 years ago. Today, it is not important to me. I ignore it.

aehaas

'Not to be too brief, viscosity in the HTHS tests (a lab test) shows a decrease in viscosity. Under other circumstances as high pressure and high stress the oil viscosity goes up rather than down. It all adds up to the complexity of motor oil and is why it is so interesting.

 

Mine consistently used Castrol GTX 20w-50 for years.
When I moved to the pacific NW, I forgot to remind the dealer and it was changed to 10w-40 Synthetic.
This year when my oil was changed, the dealer used 10w-30 synthetic.
Sometimes, I wonder why the inconsistencies? Does it really matter though?

Ron

 

I was running kendall 20-50 and the one thing that I notice is the oil pressure is slightly lower useing redline 10-30,the water temp about the same ,and same with the oil temp,but I've never heard of anyone here ever useing kendall,why,when I bought my car last year thats what the last owner was using but everyones been talking about redline and now I'm useing it