No one, even LH......

He can drive, but out of the top four Lewis is the most insecure, vulnerable and immature. Just look at the outlandish and absurd mistakes he consistently makes.
His increasingly brash bravado is not psyching anyone out, it's making money, that's about it.

It's a bit more complex than that. First of all there is no contradiction between being a perfect human being in one context and a different one in some other context.
If you were there to compete with Lewis I suspect you would have seen more of him. He's no iconoclast like Kimi, who thinks even facial expressions and vocal intonation are a waste of time.
Lewis absolutely thrives on the attention, adulation and interaction. He doesn't just want to win the WDC, he wants to be the F1 god.
He'll be mother Theresa once everyone crowns him as the best driver in history and sings his praises. Meantime, it's hyperbole time.

 

Felipe has "put to rest his rain ability doubts"? In who'se eyes?

Felipe has never been considered to be a good driver in the rain. And how can you say with a straight face "If you discount the race where Massa showed he sucks in the rain, he proved he's good in the rain!". That's like saying "if you discount the tests where I got an F, I haven't failed any tests this year!". Massa spun 6 times at silverstone and came in dead last. He spun more than any other driver - by a large margin. He didn't do well comparatively to the other top drivers at any of the races where it rained this year.

Yes, comparatively Kimi has been outperformed this year by Massa. I think what most think about Massa is true - he qualifies very well and so long as he can put the car on the front row, he's golden. If he starts anywhere in the middle of the pack, forget it. Kimi can work his way up but he just can't qualify for crap this year and he doesn't come alive until the end of the race by which time it's too late. Yes, Massa has outperformed Kimi this year clearly, but to say that Massa "put to rest" doubt about his ability in the rain is laughable. Even more so when the qualifier for that statement is to discount the humiliating performance he had in the wettest race of the year.

 

You should mention the conditions of all wet races this year (and last year's as well for that matter). You know that tires play a large part and so does the chassis. Nobody, not even a talented guy like Kimi can seem to drive around those factors, see Monza. So to expect from Massa to do well in the wet when he's compromised by bad tire strategy (Monaco this year) or possibly a bend chassis (Silverstone, but this was never confirmed), or simply a car and tire combination not working well (Monza) is a bit too much. Otherwise he has shown he CAN drive well in the wet. But it's quite convenient to ignore that.

 

All I read in this paragraph is a bunch of excuses...

he did badly in Monaco because of a bad tire strategy, not because he's not good in the wet

he did badly in Silverstone because he had a bent chassis, despite the fact that such was never reported, never claimed by ANYONE, not Massa and not the team, and was never even suggested by anyone, but that's still the reason he kept spinning out and came dead last

he did badly in Monza because of a "tire and chassis combination not working well"

Kimi has the same tires as Massa and the same chassis. He didn't spin 6 times at Silverstone and come in last. Kimi, although he qualified badly, managed to pick up 5 positions in Monza, to Massas 0 positions.


You know, when I used to race more seriously, there were always the guys who would tell you how they *would* have done well... "if only...." (then came the excuses). Anyone can have a bad race here or there. Massa has a reputation for sucking in the wet. That reputation didn't come about because of a bunch of Ferrari haters or because he's an annoying personality that people love to hate, it came about because of people observing his performance in the rain. ALL of his bad rain performances can't be mitigated by excuses and then the guy proclaimed a really good driver in the rain - because he's just not.

 

Just curious Mike and not trying to start anything ok but if he had a bent chassis and it was never claimed, reported or suggested by anyone how do you know it to be a fact?

 

Mike doesn't claim this but I did. He was speaking as if he was me.

 

My point is that it's not a black or white situation. If Massa would be really as bad in the rain as you say he wouldn't have done so well at Monaco, Fuji or Nürburgring.

I didn't claim he's a really good rain driver. But he has proven he can drive well in the rain. I think that to be a really good rain driver you should be able to do well even when the conditions are not perfect, i.e. to keep a car on the track even with dry tires on (lapping in a respectful pace). But I wonder if even Lewis can pull that off. Kimi did horribly at Spa when it started to rain. So he can't drive in the rain too?

 

Ah, yet another fun LH thread - he is probably better at getting some of you wound up than he is a driver. As an aside, anyone giving it the "I'd beat him with one hand behind my back" line would have to remember that the guy has been doing Karate since he was twelve and is now a black belt. I have seen some strange stuff on here but never someone going on about how they could 'take' a driver in a fist fight...pure comedy.

 

He he... yes tune in next week when Lewis Ham bashers, claim should the world blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an armchair expert saying it can't be done.

 

Remember this one mate.

Remind me who is still leading the WDC.

And this ^^^believe me mate, you won't want me digging any further.

You see it get's real tiresome after 2 years..

 

I don't mind digging I like it, please carry on.

What I cannot understand, is the length's some go to on here to bash him really, it just daft IMO, he is a great driver adds loads of excitement to the sport, so whether you like him or not he is a asset to F1, so I just don't get the constant hate flung at him.
Example:
Why should he be called a Wanker!! do the folk that call him that, really know what that means, because if they do they sure must do alot of it themselves, and would mudwrestle there own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a stack of French porn, because he will for sure have someone to do it for him, and he has the cash.

I can understand that he drives for the enemy, but hell fire he is just a great driver, and a worthy enemy that Ferrari fans IMO can respect, as one to beat.

 

Yes, Massa has made the most of his situation where Kimi has not. I still feel Kimi is the far superior driver - why? Well, he was amazing at McLaren. Last year he won the WDC. This year, he is struggling. On balance, Kimi has had one bad year. Massa had multiple abysmal years at Sauber and his first at Ferrari - not to mention being beat by Kimi last year. It's not like Massa has an outstanding history of success - rather, this year is sort of the anomaly for him. Kimi is sucking wind this year... I don't know why but Kimi says he can't get the tires to 'turn on' and until he does, he can't go fast. This explains why he's slow and then comes on like a rocket later in the race. But I was talking about Massa in the rain. I don't think you can discount his bad race in the rain because that's what we're talking about - Massa in the rain, and his embarassing performance in the UK is the foundation of the point being made. But Monza tells the story too - Massa outqualified Kimi, we all know that Massa has been qualifying very well this year. But in the actual race, Kimi was faster - by a lot.

Massa has had some good performances... Valencia has shown itself to be a boring no-passing Monaco-esque track, so Massas strength (qualifying) earned him a good result there... but it was a parade. I think the things people say about Massa have proven to be true... and those things are first that he sucks in the rain, and second that he sucks when he starts mid-field. I think his performances this year prove those two things to be true. Now, to be fair to the guy, he is a great qualifier and is driving probably the best car on the grid... he can get the tires to "switch on" (whereas Kimi claims he can't), so good for Massa, he's done well... but I haven't seen anything this year - at least nothing consistent - that would lead me to believe that the two things I think about Massa are wrong - those things being that he sucks in rain and he sucks when he starts other than at the front of the pack.

Not saying it's easy to qualify well and win, because Kimi can't seem to do it, but I think his results show that the two criticisms of him are pretty accurate.

Maybe I am slow to jump on a bandwagon though... It took me a while to agree with others that Hamilton was the real deal... and for me to think Alonso was great. Maybe Massa is the next Alonso? But I still doubt it

 

I sympathize with your efforts. For the life of me, I don't know why people blast you for criticizing LH, but fail to understand that their criticism of you is the very thing they condemn. They tell you that you are a plunker for criticizing Lewis--well what does that make them? Lewis is in the public domain--and therefore a justifiable target of criticism.

Maybe this week, Kimi can return the favor and rear-end Lewis in pit lane.

 

G my good friend - you don't know how many of those ignorant a-holes are still out there, and many are on this site as well. They wouldn't talk to you (or me) in person because they carry some superior racial genetic aberration in their tiny minds where they truly believe their ilk is superior to other humans. The best way to deal with them (and annoy them at the same time) is simply to be indifferent to them. Give them the same consideration as you would a gnat.