Here is some light reading for all those turbo junkies! The Aussie twin turbo 355. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29754&highlight=355+turbo&page=38
Hey is that thing still one the road? Wonder how many miles he's got racked up on it? Hit up Phill will you, and ask him if it is still running. Tell Phil I say Waaazzzup, too.
I actually asked another friend that knows the owner also and he told me that it is still going well. I dont know how many km's on the clock, but the car is still running strong apparently. I was told this around 3-4 months ago now. I will pass on a hello to Phil for you mate and I will ask if he knows how many km's on it.
The fuel tank sits beneath the "ledge" in front of the motor. The firewall near the top of the engine comes in closer so removing the fuel tank doesn't create more room in front of the upper half of the motor. Routing a belt from the S/C pulley in that space would be a neat trick. The other thing to consider is one belt is already driving both banks and the water pump - not that I want this to turn into a discussion on belt failures, lol! I think it was No Doubt that floated the idea of driving a supercharger off of the rotation of the half-shafts. Now that is thinking out of the box!
I thought I had a pic here of someone making an "adapter plate", to run a supercharger off the back of the 348 engine. It bolts to the engine or gearbox and runs a belt or something from the clutch pumpkin or something like that. I think Ernie knows what I am talking about, as we commented on it the same time we saw it here. I looked for the pic, cause I thought I had it. I will look again and post it if I do.
those are interesting words since any mustang with a turbo set up is worth 10k and up and lets not forget that that turbo mustang will hand you your ass in any one of your or any of our f-cars but when the mag is done with the photo shoot for the cover i will post up the mustang pics the using the stock mani is a good idea i have a guy who can do this i am in talks with him now does anyone have a set of manifolds that we can try this on ?
Realistically you're looking at $10k min in parts and 100ish hours for the fab and install for a fairly basic set-up so figure $20k-$30k if your plan is to drop the car off and pick it up finished. Supercharging would be in the same ballpark as would a hot (400 ish hp) naturally aspirated engine. You can do stuff cheaper, but you won't end up with a car you're happy with or can sell. I've done 4 supercharger set-ups for 308s and each one ran 200+ hours and $8k-$12k in parts. Naturally aspirated is less fab hours (unless you are foolishly mixing and matching engine parts like my latest build) but more parts money because everything is custom. $1500 for pistons, $5000 for cams, another $5k plus for head work, $4k for TBs, $3k+ for electronics and wiring, and another few $k for the standard rebuild parts and tuning. It just costs a lot of money to mess with ferrari engines. At $45K I'm guessing Norwood is including an engine rebuild with whatever upgrades they've found are required to make the package reliable.
We have been toying with the idea also using the oem manifolds and modifying the cats to be the turbo manifold (no cats). The stock ecu's could be used with a piggy back or an extra injector controller (extra fuel under boost). We have made many custom turbo kits on BMW's, VW,s, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo's etc. All the cars we have done used stock ecu's (modified chips) and a fuel riser or extra injectors and a controller. The kit (Twin Turbo) could be done for less the $20K. The last turbo 3.2 we build made 415HP at the wheels (not Ferrari) on stock internals and 10:1 compression.
A Twin Turbo setup för the 348 is not hard to build. A new exhaust manifold before Turbos is in my opinion the best(But using the existing ones isnt a bad idea, after getting the cats away - but lost likely the heat will kill the originals very soon), then go with 2 wastegates, 2 intercoolers, 2 dump-valves and so on. Original intake manifolds can easily be used, with overpressure these are not so important as if u have a naturally breathing engine. To get the compressoin lowered, if your gonna have low PSI:s(under 8-10 PSI) you can use thicker headgaskets, or simply lazercut 2 SS-Headgaskets and "glue" these in the engine(Increase the torc a little bit whan installing them).Then you will get the compression lower, so self detonation-problem will be pushed away(Are there nockers´ on these engines?). This works just fine, i have done this on a -99 Bmw M-Coupe 3,2, and i boosted 11 Psi = No problems at all. Maybe the way to go is also to cheramic-coat piston-tops, and rework the combustionchambers a bit. Original cams usually works good when supercharging/Turboing. The problem is how to map/tune the engine with a Turbo-setup. Using a Piggyback-system in my opinion is not a good idea on these kind of cars/engines. Also i would not use extra injectors, its usually very tricky to get thewse to line-up in a good way, tend to get very "jumpy" with these. The best way to go is applying a new stand-alone engine management system, but... how this will work with the 348-original electrical system(wireing, lights, security-setup) i dont know. If your gonna drive the car for street, all this must work properly together. If your gonna build Twin Turbos on a engine like this, you MUST be sure that you have a good engine management system, so there will be NO problems at all with it. Otherwise the car will not be running good, and you will get problems with it... and - who wants to buy a Ferrari with a Turbo-setup that doesnt work properly = yor gonna loose a lot of money on this. Maybe the original engine management CAN be remapped for turbos, this can be a very good solution also. When i did the Bmw M-Coupe Supercharger-setup, this was a big problem. First i used a Piggyback-system, but it worked quite bad, and in those days there were no one in Sweden that could remap the Bmw-Motronic. With the Piggyback, my engine just "adjusted it self all the time, because it was a intelligent Motronic. The more fuel i added, the more it did some internal changes... After a few years we found a person who got access to this Motronic and its codes, then it was very easy. He remapped the original ECU and the car ran like hell.... There are though several GOOD aftermarket stand-alone engine management systems these days to get, but they are quite expensive, but they work just fine if tuned in correctly. The question is also... why "destroy" the Ferrari original charasteristic high rpm engine, with a Turbo-setup...? If your gonna do this - do it properly(change pistons, rods, bigger valves, rework head and match the runners, new Plenums, new exhaust manifold, Ball bearing-Turbos, maybe Autronic or Motec stand-alone-system), but it will surely cost you like hell... and you will not sleep good for some time *LOL* ........ Kimmo/Sweden.
Received a magazine today that i got from ebay. Contains a road test on a Lotec Ferrari 348 Biturbo which has 470bhp. It cost £19,000 (UK) in 1994. I'll scan and post up the review when i ahve some time. And yes... i tracked down teh company and sent them an email to ask if they still made the turbo system.
Yeah, heard about that I thought luckydynes wound up with it? We need a stooge to volunteer their car for a turbo project!
Just curious... wouldn't adding turbos seriously mess with the soundtrack of the car? I would anticipate it'd make the exhaust a bit quieter, and you'd also introduce the induction noise and turbo warble to the engine's roar. More power is great, but once you start messing with the driving experience - particularly the noise - don't you end up missing the whole point of a Ferrari? All the best, Andrew.
It would have some effect. That said, I have been fortunate enough to be close to an F40 as it peeled out and took off. Nothing wrong with the sound of that twin turbo beast!
Say What!!! Wow - this is expensive. You are looking at $20,000 - $40,000 outlay now with a considerable up-charge in service bills down the road due to the custom parts. Also it might require more frequent servicing due to the high state of tune. Makes more sense to me to sell the 348 and buy a Ferrari 355 / 360. You get a NA engine (sound + tractability), known reliability, power increase over the 348, and assured future re-saleability.
if you spent a few bux at turbonetics.com and were a decent fabricator, the 348 would be the easiest car I know of to slap 1 or 2 turbo's on. The intercooler(s) would be the only tuffy if you really obsessed about getting the coldest air possible. I would probably use smaller intercoolers (ie. Mazdaspeed Miata or similar), build some ductwork and utilize the quarter-glass air intake ducts. If you're using an afermarket muffler or single can on a 348, and once you remove the stock airbox, theres a TON of room for all the parts and plumbing! Dare I say, it could be easily done for around $5k for twins... not including coatings and nicey-nice goodies.
I owned a 1989 TT 348 that had been turbocharged by Norwoods. Norwoods sold me through one of their customers. All of the performance upgrades had already been done when I purchased it, so I saved quite a bit of money. They told me that the previous owner had spent around $40,000 on it. It was a great car and a lot of fun to drive. I ended up selling it to another F-Chat member in Nashville.
Plugz and I have actually been discussing this option. We were looking to run a supercharger at first with energy pulled either from the transmission or a drive shaft from the front of the motor passing under the plenum. The real stickler is the engine management system. Since no one here seems to really know anything about the M2.7 ECU and how to tune it, we need to go to an expert on the subject and we have not really found any yet. I am still looking at wringing out more ponies from the stock normally aspirated setup and have an engine builder friend looking into it. Cheap HP is easily available with nitrous, but who wants to bastardize their car with this graft, or even an SC or TT kit? Not me.
110.000$ for a turbo conversion seems a bit high maybe with a new gearbox and a 1000hp+ Engine. For something arround 600-800hp with the needed parts arround it i would do it for ~40.000$. Main problem to do a good turbo conversion on the 348/355 is the space its just not enough room to fit everything. I even didn't get anything in the engine bay like i planned it with just 4 cylinders. With 8 cylinders plus maybe two turbochargers it is even more difficult. Putting the Turbochargers 5 meters away from the engine isn't a good solution also air cooled intercoolers right inside the engine bay are also a no go. So that solution should be in garbage.
