How do you operate an F1 transmission... REALLY!

Oh? What about all the RoW Ferraris then?

The reason nearly all Ferraris are sold with F1 is that it makes Ferrari SpA a lot more money, both initial sale and then service.

 

Firstly these should not be drive in auto mode as it will smoke the clutch in a few short miles. The California can be driven in auto mode as it has wet clutches.

Don't lift throttle on up shifts.
Don't leave in gear at stop come to N and use your brakes to stop.
Be decisive. Let a gap open up in stop and go and then start off.
Reverse cleanly.

The clutch will last forever if driven properly.

 

If you're in 1st at a stop and your foot is on the brake, isn't it the same thing as it being in "N"

Just going by what the f355 owners manual says.

It also doesn't let you stay in a gear if your foot is on the brake, puts it in "N" for you.

 

... and many others forget that their everyday driver does not have paddles, ending in a commute similar to what Carbon (NNO) just outlined above

 

The key is depressing the brake all the way. That's what opens the clutch. Remember the computer can't think. When you step on the gas it closes the clutch. Neither the Brake or the gas change the gearbox they open and close the clutch and there is a moment when they allow it to slip. Come off the brake cleanly and on the gas cleanly. Slipping is what kills the clutch.

 

interesting because the ferrari engineer i use says the effect of being at stop light ingear with foot on the brake is the same as keeping clutch depressed in a manual car- ie no wear UNTIL the clutch is released

 

How can the transmission being in gear with the clutch open be the same as the transmission in N with the clutch closed?

He's wrong as following his advice you're wearing the throw out bearing and the clutch springs as you're holding the clutch open. He's correct that it's the same thing as sitting at a light in a manual in gear and your clutch foot to the floor but wrong about no wear.

 

Have double-shuffled and done clutchless gear changes since the age of ten. Learning on no synchromesh crash boxes where you must match the gearbox shaft speeds correctly to engage dog gears without crunching.
The modern double-shuffle is little more than a synchro life helper, with the added benefit of reducing impact on the whole drive train and courtesy of smoothness to your passengers.

 

I hate to disagree but I think you'll find being stopped in gear with foot firmly on the brake in a current F1 Ferrari *IS* actually the same as being stopped in neutral with foot on (or off) the brake. The reason is that the clutch is withdrawn in both cases. That is, the pressure plate springs are compressed and is spinning on the throwout bearing when stopped regardless of whether the gearbox is in gear or not. Transmission wear & tear (both clutch plate and throwout bearing & springs) are exactly the same in both cases.

 

True but that's why at a light I never step on the brake hard in an F1 gearbox car. On a hill I use E brake which seems to save clutch as well. (The California has an automatic hill brake). Why do you think that the clutch is out when your foot is off the brake at a stop with gear box in N ? When you shut the car off in gear it holds on a hill without e brake.

 

Unfortunately I am not a qualified technician so I could be wrong. That’s how the subtleties of F1 operation were explained to me by several professionals during my 360 shopping experience and subsequent ownership. My understanding is that the pressure plate engages immediately upon engine stoppage (hence gear engagement when the car is off, plus the need to be in neutral to start the car) and visa-versa upon engine start. It may have something to do with the fact that the starter ring gear is on the pressure plate instead of the flywheel as on most cars. Apparently engagement of the pressure plate when the engine is running can only happen when (a) brake is off, (b) gearbox is not in neutral and (c) gas peddle is moved. Of course I am ignoring the various other “not ready” conditions like boot & engine lids, etc.

I think the reason using the E-brake on hills works well is that it avoids the inevitable backsliding during the brief time between brake release and clutch engagement which results in additional clutch slippage. Your points and questions are all well taken and I am happy to be proven incorrect.

 

Does your owner's manual suggest to shift to N if you're stopped for a while? The 02 Maser one does. Also you can apply the brakes without causing free wheeling. If you brake and downshift you can feel the downshift in the engine. As time goes on they have changed the software so we could both be right but the bottom line remains that I put 22K miles on my Maser F1 and the clutch is fine.

 

I have a '98 355F1.

I think the point of confusion as to clutch wear at a stop whether in gear or in neutral traces back to the fact that there are several components in a clutch system. My understanding of it all is that to leave the car in gear while stopped will NOT wear the clutch disc (it is clamped, not moving) but may wear the throwout bearing (it is doing the clamping) and will require the system to maintain pressure in the hydraulics of the clutch/slave assembly, thereby exploiting any leaks or potential leaks in the system. This should be true for manual trans cars or F1 cars, as the gearbox/clutch internals are the same. This is why many folks advocate sitting at red lights in neutral, rather than 1st gear.

As to throttle blipping, I agree that heel-toe downshifting has been well described here. One point not mentioned (or maybe I missed it) is that the point of heel-toe rev matching is to be gentle on the equipment AND to avoid potentially jerky motions which may unsettle the car if driving it at the limit (ie: spin the car). On the early cars with F1, the throttle linkage is mechanical, therefore to smooth downshifts one must heel-toe, just as with a manual transmission car. On the newer cars, the throttle linkage is "drive by wire", so the electronics blip the throttle for the driver (don't know when this occurred, but I think it was with the 360's). Personally, I like the driver involvement aspect of heel-toe shifting to smooth out my shifts, preserves some of the "connectedness" 6 speed advocates always talk about. My other car is a VW R32 with DSG, and it is obvious what a beautiful job the computer can do rev-matching the downshifts, but there is not as much pride or fulfillment with it.

For the original poster, I would add that it really doesn't take long to get the feel for this sort of system. And of course, yes, I would buy another.

John

 

The owner’s manual for my ’02 360 F1 coupe does not address this issue directly. It does say that when the car is stopped the F1 system will automatically shift into neutral under one of the following circumstances: either (1) no brakes and no throttle input for longer than 4 seconds, or (2) the brakes applied but no throttle input for longer that 10 minutes. Elsewhere the manual says that upon stopping, the car will automatically select 1st gear and the brakes should be engaged until ready to move off. At that time simply release the brakes and press the gas peddle. Obviously it’s Ok to stop the car without shifting into neutral as long as the brakes are engaged and you’re not going to sit for more than 10 minutes.

Clearly when the car is stopped with the brakes applied and in gear, the clutch is disengaged. The only real issue we’re having difficulty with here is this: When the car is stopped with brakes applied and in neutral, is the clutch engaged? Napolis’ original contention is “yes it is” which implies it’s easier on the transmission to sit still in neutral since it avoids compression of the pressure plate springs and does not load the throwout bearing. My contention is “no it’s not” which implies it makes no difference to the transmission whether you sit still in gear or in neutral since it’s the same amount of wear & tear either way.

Now all we need is a technician who actually knows.

 

don't some of the newer ferrari's ,have what i thought is called ''launch control'',were you hold both paddles in while holding the throttle down,then you let out both paddles ,the car will launch without tire spin,,i also thought it was only on euro cars?

 

Extremely interesting as I too have never driven paddles and have a 2003 F1 Modena arriving this week. Starting- Car in neutral with foot on the break, with foot on the break shift to 1st ,then move off by applying gas. Coming to stop apply break,shift to neutral and while at stop keep right foot on break. Move off shift to 1st and apply gas. Shiffting up or down do so without lifting up on gas. Use primarily sport mode, Reverse, - foot on break, pull lever back the apply gas, reverse for getting into first to move forward. Is this correct?

 

In the 612, it will go to neutral automatically when you start if it was parked in first.

Also, the debate in this thread was whether to go to neutral at a stoplight situation. The manual doesn't indicate that you need to do so-- you can leave it in first as long as your foot is on the brake.

 

I am not completely sure of what is going on inside as I cannot see it, but I believe Napolis is correct. Basically, I drive the F1 just like I would drive a manual, but the computer operates the gear lever and clutch. I know, you're thinking "duh." Here's an example: you are coming to a light in 6th gear at 60 mph. You can just leave the paddles alone and brake the car to a stop. Each time the motor hits 1200 rpm, it will downshift, depressing the clutch, selecting the next lower gear, and then releasing (engaging) the clutch. 5 times. But this is not how you drive a manual, right? You don't clutch and shift down, clutch and shift down, working through each gear. It is unnecessary wear on everything involved, and clunky. What you do is put the car in neutral, release the clutch, use the brakes to bring the car to a smooth stop, and you sit there in neutral. When the light is about to turn green, you select 1st gear. When it is green, you go - gently but positively until the clutch is fully engaged, then on the gas for a smooth start.

And I do manually blip the throttle on downshifts. Almost effortless in the 355, very smooth, sounds awesome

 

+1, spot on.