Wiping (using lead on panels) | FerrariChat
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Wiping (using lead on panels)

Discussion in 'Australia' started by b27, Oct 3, 2008.

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  1. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

    Oct 11, 2007
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    Brett
    #1 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    On occassion the rebuilding of my car comes up here and I mentioned at one time lead was being used to blend in panels as was done by ferrari when it was first built. I later learnt from Modelar (a fellow f-chatter) that this is called "wiping". Anyway to cut a long story short he suggested I should post some photos of this work on my cay as some of you may be interested.

    So this afternoon I took some photos of the repairs to the right front of the car and I'll generally focus all photos to this area. I was surprised as to how much lead is used (and wasted) for such a small area.

    There are a number of photos to follow (I've edited them down to 26) so I hope I don't bore you guys/guyesses, but I will start at the beginning. I'll try and give a little explanation of the process as it goes. :)

    Enjoy, and please limit any sarcastic comments. :D

    1. When I decided to fully rebuild the car, and by that I mean everything, body, engine, gearbox, interior etc etc, it was only when the paint was removed that we found the front had had a knock (it really is amazing what paint covers). We decided to cut the front off and had new panels made in the UK.

    The first 4 photos are, 1, After being striped by FF it was sent to the panel shop. 2-4 show the damage and the front of the car after it had been cut off.
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  2. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

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    #2 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

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    Brett
    #3 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

    Oct 11, 2007
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    #4 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So now to what this thread was started for. Wiping.

    The first process is to paint the surface with a liquid which is sort of like a flux to ensure the lead adheres to the steel. Without this there is no adhesion. The surface is then heated and wiped and you are left with a surface that almost looks like chrome.

    What I found to be interesting was how low the temperature was. They don't actually use oxygen from the oxy acetylene set. They ony use the acetylene and the special nozzle actaully draws air in. The lead is applied at just over 100 degrees C and I could actually touch the panel after only a minute or so. Obviousbly you can't have too higher a temperature as that would cause warping in the panels.
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  5. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

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    #5 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Lead sticks are then used to deposit material onto the area using the acetylene torch to which you want to blend. Basicllay just like soldering. You can see the reason for doing this area is because this is where the new panel was welded into place. Each lead stick weighs 500grams and he used just over 2 sticks for this part of the car, thats just over 1kg of material.

    It goes on very thick and it is then smoothed out again using the acetylene torch and a wooden tool. (I forgot to ask what that too was called) I know he refered to the special head on the acetylene torch as a goose neck which was difficult for him to source. He actually bought it in from the US.
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  6. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

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    #6 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

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    #7 b27, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This job took just under 2 hours of work to get to the last photo and there was still more work to be done. Below is an area after being sanded. It actually show the one side with the cut out and the other repaired.

    I hope some of you found this interesting. I enjoyed watching a tradesman at work. The gentleman commentd that they are not teaching the the young kids today this skill.

    I am sure I have missed some comments so feel free to ask questions, and if you find this stuff interesting I'll post more as the project progresses.
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  8. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

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    #8 Aedo, Oct 3, 2008
    Great stuff!! Love this type of thread!

    Thanks and keep up the photo stream!
     
  9. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Aircon, Oct 3, 2008
    omg...how depressing.

    no wonder it's so expensive.
     
  10. jmillard308

    jmillard308 F1 Veteran
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    #10 jmillard308, Oct 3, 2008
    And taking sooooooo long :(
     
  11. mhh

    mhh F1 Veteran

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    #11 mhh, Oct 3, 2008
    +1. Great thread.

    Love doesn't come cheap. :eek:
     
  12. neilo63

    neilo63 Karting

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    #12 neilo63, Oct 3, 2008
    Now this is good FerrariChat!

    Thanks for sharing. You learn something everyday...
     
  13. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 PAP 348, Oct 3, 2008


    +3! :p:p

    Im with you boys! Great thread!! :):)

    Looking forward to seeing more pics Brett. :D:D
     
  14. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 moretti, Oct 3, 2008
    ok Brett, why do they put SO much lead on when a wipe would be fine and then file finish it ?

    to me they have just caked it on and then get a rasp to take it back to the metal :confused:

    my brother lead wiped my 2300S and there was nowhere near the amount of lead this guy has used
     
  15. ASIO

    ASIO Formula 3
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    #15 ASIO, Oct 3, 2008
    Nice to see it come back to life....

    If you watch Gasolene on C31, the 2 old guys are currently doing this actual repair-method.

    http://www.gasolene.com.au/team.php

    The HorsePowerFactory is always good for laugh.

    Best of all you get to perv on Jo! :)

    Ciao

    M
     
  16. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 Horse, Oct 3, 2008
    Very interesting Brett, but what is the advantage over a good body filler?
     
  17. frog

    frog Karting

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    #17 frog, Oct 3, 2008
    The lead makes you stupider, so you don't feel such a mug wasting so much money on repairs??
     
  18. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Aircon, Oct 3, 2008
    i was wondering the same thing. is lead just the 'old fashioned way'?
     
  19. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    #19 IanB, Oct 3, 2008
    I've heard passionate arguments from advocates on either side of the bog vs. lead debate. AFAIK lead's advantage is that it is completely inert - it won't shrink or react with the paint that covers it. Disadvantage is weight - its not good for filling damaged panels. But I've seen paint stripped old Ferraris with 10mm of lead, original from the factory, especially around the windscreen.

    My Daytona wheels had numerous small chips in them after paint stripping, mostly from the knock-off hammer I think.
    The painter (at a high-tech and highly recommended German car restoration specialist) swore by the super-duper high-build 2-pack primer he used. They looked great when I put them on the car, now 18 months later they're covered in wrinkles where the primer has misbehaved. :( :(

    tm KIAI
     
  20. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 Horse, Oct 3, 2008
    Why do they do the "wrinkle" thing, i've seen lots of V12 wheels repainted and ended up like that.

    I'm going to try to avoid painting my wheels for as long as possible.
     
  21. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #21 kerrari, Oct 3, 2008
    Brett, very interesting and thanks for this. It shows a very different version of what I've always understood 'lead wiping' to be. These seem to be using lead as a filler in a similar 'bog and file back' method whereas certain old-timers of my acquaintance only used lead to even out very slight discrepancies in surfaces, literally wiping off the small excess while still soft?

    Also (and not wanting to criticise, merely pointing out), what's being done about the corrosion on the frame under the A-pillar visible in one of those photos? What I'm trying to say is surely there's little point in doing a mint skin finish if there are underlying 'skeleton' problems?

    Anyway, good on you for putting the time and money into this project despite all the sledging some people dish out, I hope the car repays you with years of happy driving. The 6 months my car spent in the workshop between when I bought it and when I first got to drive it, were the longest in my life...
     
  22. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    #22 wrxmike, Oct 3, 2008
    Yes, lead wiping was around before plastic fillers. Properly done, it wont fall out or rust and is impervious to water ( bog is porous ).
    But because lead requires skill to apply, is hazardous and more time consuming to use, plastic fillers are the preffered solution these days, and modern fillers, properly applied, are very good.

    M
     
  23. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    #23 IanB, Oct 4, 2008
    I have no idea, only guess I could make is that the magnesium content is higher than more modern alloys and the 2-pack primers don't like it. My wheels were plastic bead blasted back to bare metal, handled with gloves, wrapped in plastic, etc. $2k in cost and lots of mucking around. Very, very frustrating to watch them wrinkle up later.

    When I stripped and painted my 246 wheels 20 years ago, I insisted on acrylic as per original. These wheels still look good today.
     
  24. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    #24 IanB, Oct 4, 2008
    All Ferraris of the period are like this under the skin - the chassis were not painted before the panels were attached. As long as it stays dry, that surface rust is not a problem, it won't go any further.
     
  25. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 Aircon, Oct 4, 2008
    today carl told me that the lead also can shrink and move at a different rate to the steel panel causing a crazing effect in the paint.

    there is a chance he has no idea what he's talking about.

    :)
     
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