WHY is the FIA manipulating the F1 Championship

The post race decision in Belgium was questionable, but left some answers open. The post race manipulation (as well as those going on during the race) left no door open: The FIA does anything to help Ferrari/Massa.

My only question left is why?

So let's hear it from you guys and gals:

 

Thanks for the thread Andreas, I hope it gets read by those that need it spelling out to them.

I have not enough time at the min to spout off more.

 

One thing I would like to add before voting, think would you want to buy a ticket to watch a race, then come away and think you saw the winner, only to find when you got home the result had been changed.

I wouldn't.....

 

A loaded question.

 

Why what??

So why was Massa's bout with Hamilton yesterday in Japan, where Hamilton spun, not considered a racing incident? And therefore, why did Massa receive a penalty if the FIA is trying to help Massa?

You do not think that Hamilton's move on turn one was wrong?

You think it was OK for Bourdais to exit the pits on cold tires on a cool track surface and try to race a car already on track at the first turn?

And Andreas, to be fair, the title of this thread should not have been so one sided.

 

We have to assume that there are several reasons why F1 is in its current state but from what I've read over the last 10 years money is a huge driving force if not the biggest.

 

I felt both incidents (LH/FM and SB/FM) were simple driving incidents. I think they should have just let both of them go. As for LH strightlinig turn one and almost taking out half the field for no reason when he was ahead of Massa anyway well that deserved a penalty.

I do not feel "the fix is in" i think there are just some boneheaded moves by drivers pretty regularly this year. Some level of racing needs to be allowed and not just a parade

 

I do not think that there is a grand conspiracy in F1, other than Bernie doing anything he wants to make money. I think that humans have biases, track officials have a favorite team or driver and if something happens involving that team or driver then their decisions could be biased. But if the drivers stay clean and avoid incidences then there would be no chance for this. For example, some think that Hamilton was penalised unjustly for late braking and pushing Kimi off track at the start of the the Fuji race. If Hamilton just kept his cool and braked normally he most likely could have cruised to a podium finish and not given any one off track a chance to interfere with his race.

 

I'll give you my $ 0.02 for what they're worth (probably less than 2 cents), although it doesn't really matter what I think here. I just wanted to know how the majority on FChat feels about this.

To answer your questions:
Massa didn't own that turn at all. That was not a racing incident, but a kamikaze move. Personally I like dirty racing and wouldn't have done anything about it. But if the stewards want to be anal about it, then they should have black flagged him for that.

The penalty the FIA gave to Massa was a slap on the wrist given what he did.

Hamilton's maneuver in turn 1 was stupid and shows the man is loosing his nerves, but also shouldn't have been penalized at all. There wasn't even contact. If we start handing out penalties for "dangerous moves", well then almost every GP has something to be penalized in turn 1. Again, this is stupid, incidents shouldn't be penalized.

The Bourdais penalty is what threw me off my rocker because it is so blatantly wrong: Bourdais has to keep clear of the white line and he did. Everything else is fighting for position and perfectly legal. In essence he was penalized for defending his position. The penalty was a joke. A sad one. Again no penalty was required.

Yes the thread title is one sided because it is supposed to grab attention. If you don't agree with the question, there is option 3.

 

How about option #5: Bernie and Max hate Ron Dennis?

 

You've 'heard' ?

And, only over the last TEN years has it been a 'huge, driving force if not the biggest' ?

Kidding, right ?

Name ANY Pro sport where money is NOT the biggest driving force, I dare you.

 

You see what you want to see.

The FIA is not making anything up. The actions on the track are seen by the entire world. Chicane cutting and stupid driving are not merely illusions being invented by the FIA. If you want to distort reality when it doesn't go as you think it should, that's your problem.

 

i have no idea. SeaBass's penalty was questionable, but common, cutting chicanes, taking almost half the field out in the 1st corner, thats all penalties. to be fair, Kimi and Massa was punished this season. so no. no manipulation, IMO.

 

So far it appears that money and the rules negate the thought of conspiracy and manipulation. In every situation, there is always someone that is unhappy, like a Stephney, and in order to either clear a conscience, get back at someone, or make a lot of money, they will become a deep throat. Or a public "enemy".

No one has done that yet now have they. And probably no one will because there isn't any organized manipulation of the championship.

Additionally too many people dislike Bernie and Max that if any of this manipulation BS was true, they would come forward, especially through the hungry British press, and go public. For a buck or to slam Max and Bernie.

Until someone can offer real proof, and not just your prejudiced opinions, I would say there is no organized attempt within the FIA to control the WDC. It would be just to complicated, and the drivers, the teams, the manufacturers, and the sponsors would all have to be involved.

Fortunetely wiser and more connected individuals run the sport, not knee jerks like us.


Berger's words of wisdom on the Massa/Hamilton situation:

Although Bourdais lost his points-scoring finish in Japan after being punished for a collision with Felipe Massa, Berger is adamant his driver did nothing wrong.

"It was a racing accident," explained Berger. "Bourdais was inside, if Massa had given him two centimetres more space both cars would go around the corner, so I wouldn't think it's Bourdais's mistake at all. But I wouldn't say it was Massa's either. It was a racing accident. Nothing happened anyway – in a racing situation, two cars touching is a normal thing."

When asked if he felt there were too many penalties being handed out at the moment, Berger said: "I don't want to comment on it because it's not where we should discuss this. But I like more to see racing.

"If there are some incidents that are reasonable racing accidents, not something crazy, I would like to see them let it go. Investigations are important, but too many are found guilty."

 

I consider the FIA to apply different levels of observation of the rules to different drivers. Yes the rules are fixed however the degree to which they are interpreted or applied is up to TONS of debate and offers the opportunity to control the numbers. As to why the FIA does this to my mind is simple:

Formula 1's greatest revenue is from TV and it is in the best interest of good TV for the championship to not be decided too early or at best decided in the final race. When the competition needs a little help to make this happen the FIA starts being more pickey with some teams/drivers than others in order to achieve their desired result. The die hard fans get screwed but the masses are little the wiser so the money still pours in. There is LOTS of evidence to prove this over many many years and while this is done to all runaway success teams/drivers there is also evidence to suggest that Ferrari gets preferential treatment. Makes sense as F1 is worth a lot less to investors and fans without Ferrari; and Ferrari knows this. That's why Enzo was always threatening to pull his cars in an effort to 'pull the strings' in his favor.

Its an old story. This year its just a little more blatant. That and Ron Dennis was particularily critical of Max Mosely so the entire FIA is not above some childish ego 'get backs' when they can get them.

 

Hamilton's move on the first turn was more than stupid. To use your words about Massa, it was a kamikaze move. The fact that he didn't take out anyone was not the point, the point is what he did was reckless and violated what the driver's are told in the driver's meeting. It deserved the penalty he got.

Reason, what it to prevent this type of first turn theatrics to continue? Even in NASCAR they tell the drivers not to try to win the race on the first turn.

Same with Massa's move on Hamilton, that "slap on the wrist" as you call it, a drive through which is considered similar to a 25 second penalty, was deserved and as severe as it could be and cost Massa the race win. Pretty severe in my opinion. Actually, I think way too severe as it was more like a "racing incident" than Hamilton's first turn move. Kind of like when Hamilton pushed Massa off track a few races ago and Hamilton did not get the penalty.

The Bourdais/Massa situation was more questionable, I do not think either driver deserved the penalty, and since the wording of the decision has not yet been released so I do not know what the stewards were thinking. I did hear something about cold tires, cold track, dangerous move, but that has yet to be confirmed.

I still do not agree with you concerning the title of the thread.

There is no proof of manipulation of the WDC. Until there is, there is no manipulation of the WDC. Just a lot of unnecessary penalties.

 

There's no conspiracy. In every sport where there are judges wrong calls can and will be made. With F1 it's even harder to make the decissions because you can't stop the game (like football or almost every ball sport) to analyse the faul. If you don't realise this then you're better off watching chess.

 

Pete, just for 1 minute be a Mclaren fan, and see if you feel the same way.

You change a big team football result after the match!! and the ref or whoever made that call, would have to contain WW3, and have police protection for life.

It takes intelligence to be a good chess player, but you only need to be a sucker to watch the farce the FIA has made of F1.

 

+1000000


Even a cursory study of F1 history (and motor racing in general) shows ample evidence of what you say.

 

I think its a combination of the first two options: A close championship sells tickets (and ad space, both at the track and on TV), which benefits Bernie, and everyone else to a lesser degree. As for the pro-Ferrari stance, Ferrari has a disproportionate amount of the fan base in F1, and Massa is a driver from Brazil, a nation that is both very loyal to F1 and also a very quickly growing economy.

 

F1 is a business, that use to be a sport

 

FIA being anal and ferrari biased? Malaysia this year, raikkonen got penalised for not having his tires on on the dot of 3 minutes before the race, several seconds to late. Offcourse they want ferrari to win!

 

Bas, it's a well known fact!!...
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A clarification please. What is the role of the local stewards as opposed to that of the FIA ? My understanding is that the locals do the initial citing and the FIA handles appeals. (Yes I know that the locals are not independent of the FIA and many owe Bernie or Max one way or another.)

 

I do not find it at all intelligent or appropriate to consider anyone that does not believe there is a conspiracy or a manipulation of the WDC to be a "sucker".

Proof.

Please provide the proof before you start to insult anyone that does not agree with you. Real proof, not the typical self righteous dribble that appears here on FChat.

Frankly, as I have said before, to have any such manipulation would require the cooperation and participation of virtually everyone in F1, from drivers to the person that sweeps the garage floor. And at some point, if true, someone would speak up. No driver, nor car will be penalized if they are not involved in a controversial situation. If there were manipulation in favor of one manufacturer, let's get serious, does anyone really think that the likes of Toyota, Honda, Renault, and even Mercedes would continue in this series? There are too many other motor sports venues that would reach the car buying public to think these major corporations would stay in a series they felt was biased against them year after year. Especially if they had no chance of winning championships.

Reality, there is no proof. Only biased myopic opinions. Because it would be entirely too difficult to manipulate F1.