Ferrari threats leaving F1 if FIA decides to take the single engine route...

Brian,

I think you are right. that is what needs to happen... kinda like back in the 70's, but i think the money today is so great they cant do it.. they are addicted to each other...but it would be great... maybe a rule that if you do a car in F-1 you have to do a car in LMP2... or something like that.. .same engine & gear box... but let the F-1 guys have all the techno freedom ... are you in Maranello yet?

 

That linkage would kill off the small teams. Would you really like to see the end of Williams?

 

There's lots of models for them to analyze before Max gets too heavy handed.

LeMans has classes all on track together, but lower cars can still win their class. Perhaps F1 could have a constructors championship as they do now, and a "customers championship" for those that source parts from the constructors? There are models for the other proposals too. CART failed miserably, and that was the "everyone uses the same car" model. NASCAR has the same bodywork, with different powertrains - and is very successful.

I can't understand why Mosley thinks that somehow equalizing engines but leaving aero open to R&D is going to reduce costs or make the smaller teams more competitive? Seems it would have the opposite effect. Is the engine really the major cost center in F1? Seems like it's aero, especially when Sauber is buying $85mm (IIRC) wind tunnels and Williams is investing heavily in supercomputers for computational fluid dynamics.

The way I see it... Ferrari has a financial number associated with success in F1. Let's say it's $1bn. That means they maybe get $500mm in total sponsorship (direct money, as well as free stuff like oil and computers and whatever). Then lets say they estimate there is a $500mm marketing advantage from F1, for a total value of $1bn. So for them, perhaps it's worth it to spend $700mm a year ($200mm of their own money over their sponsorship income). So if Max says they have to restrict engine development... Ok, so they dump the $$$ in aero instead, or brakes, or KERS, or...just anywhere.

Force India may get engines for $5mm a year, but they are never going to be challenging a Ferrari.

I am not sure exactly what Max wants... I don't think Ferrari or McLaren are having a hard time affording F1. I think they will spend whatever they have to spend. If they can command more sponsorship $$, they will spend it. I think Max's real goal is that the smaller teams can spend a much smaller amount of $$ *and* still be competitive. And I don't see how that can happen.

 

I'm sorry did I say something you? Blah Blah Blah. Please stop cracking me up with lighten up. Please say something relevant like explaining what about my post was so over the top that I need to lighten up.

Oh by the way, Mike doesn't need you to come to his rescue. He is all grown up and we talk about other things without acting juvenile and posting responses to comments that are not directed to us. Especially replacing the quote with Blah Blah Blah, Have a great day Sir!!!!!!

 

Don't know why you don't think I would answer but I'm gald too. I work for a city police department as a detective. Oh and sorry but If Mike wants to tell you his profession thats up to him not for me to tell even if I knew.

 

It wasn't over the top - I said something that you took as a slight against LEO's. I did not intend it that way... I didn't mean "lighten up" as a witty comeback, just meant don't sweat it, I meant no offense

So, I apologize for what came across in the post - It wasn't meant as a slight against LEO's!



But can you at least agree with what I said about Mosley?

 

Absolutely Sir, I agree completely, Funny thing is now all the children on F-chat want to chime in for no reason. I respect you sir and have no problem at all. Give me a call when you can I spoke to the friend with the military contract. He has it through the Dept. of Defense but said he would be glad to talk to you about his contacts. Sorry thanks and I also apologize if I in anyway offended you.

 

Interesting idea, making "Best of the Rest" an official class with its own championship. Don't know how many teams would be willing to take such characterization though. In terms of this season's performance Honda would qualify as a "of the rest" team.

 

Scott,

If I got offended when someone disagreed with something I said on f-chat, I'd spend all my life crying in the corner

(not that I don't, just not because of f-chat)

 

I just wonder how Mosley and the FIA can reconcile the competing aims and resources of the teams.

Someone will always be at the top... even if all the teams had the resources of Ferrari/McLaren/Toyota, someone is always going to necessarily occupy the top spot... and if Mosley thinks he can engineer it such that Force India have an honest shot of beating Ferrari, then what's in it for Ferrari?

I wonder if they couldn't do something like they do in LeMans where they have the various classes. I would say maybe just two.... those that are contructors (who make their chassis and their engine) and those that are "customer cars". So in constructors you would have Ferrari, McLaren, Honda, Renault, Toyota and BMW. Then in the customers 'series' you would have Red Bull (with Renault engines), Toro Rosso (with Ferrari engines), Force India (with Ferrari engines), and Williams (with Toyota engines), and Super Aguri (with Honda engines).

Let's face it - all the guys in the 'customer' cars have no hope in hell of beating the factory teams (save for Honda - ) but it would give the smaller teams something to really compete for if they were fighting amongst themselves.

I would think (although I have been wrong before - well, that one time in 1982) that the smaller teams would like this because they have a chance to win something and get more exposure than they otherwise would. They would have to come up with a non-negative connotation. So it couldn't be the B series or something - just something that sounds equivalent to the 'main' constructors series. Then, it may even encourage the guys who dont' currently sell engines to get involved, because they would want to be the provider of the engine that won the alternate series (I'm thinking McLaren and BMW who don't currently supply customer engines). If you had 6 constructors who all wanted to be in the alternate series as well as engine suppliers, then right away you have 12 teams... if one of the constructors pull out, the orphaned alternate team has 5 other suppliers to talk to.

And, whereas right now nobody cares if Red Bull uses Ferrari or Renault or Honda engines, having a real and honest-to-god thing to win may make the constructors want to sell engines at a reasonable cost, thereby eliminating the need for MaxPorn to mandate (probably unrealistic) costs for engine sales.

But what do I know...

 

Oh right i understand now, thanks. The last two pages of the thread make more sense to me now. I did eventually worked worked out Mikes profession from reading the posts after my original question. Good job really because Mikes keeping siht close to his chest, or over looking/ignoring the question
I said the "hold my breath" part, very tongue in cheek Just that some times when questions are asked they are often ignored unless asked by the usual suspects (excuse the pun) But thanks for the courtesy in answering my question

 

Now Mercedes and BMW are getting into the act as well.

 

Any links to that story please?

 

I'd say that Red Bull / Torro Rosso could compete.
P.S. This reminds me of the good old days in one respect. Ferrari threatening to quit the sport.

 

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081029092417.shtml

 

Wow the FIA really are out to screw up F1 as we know it arnt they. I also have always believed what Norbert Haug has said regarding, technical excellence has been limited in F1 in recent years.

 

Yeah, what are the engine guys doing right now besides sitting around. Even LDM said a few months back that the Engine Freeze was bad for Ferrari's engine guys back at Maranello as they could not do too much.

 

While I am 100% against a same engine per team formula for F1, if I were the FIA I would implement it anyway just to call Ferrari's bluff to pull out of F1. Just because Ferrari has been in F1 for 50+ years does not mean F1 would not survive without them. Any vacuum would quickly be filled with other manufacturers...maybe even an Audi-Lamborghini team...or even VW may give it a shot.

 

Without Ferrari F1 would immediately and completely die.

A1GP would liekly then go to country-based teams and technology and become the premier venue....no doubt there are a number of first class tracks they could negotiate for.

This is what I hope happens.

 

No it wouldn't continue, of that I feel very confident.
Who would watch a spec series of Honda and Toyota "competing" with the likes of McLaren and Renault.
No one in Europe would watch, and virtually no one in the USA is watching now.

Le Mans no doubt would be much more popular if it was the old Porsche-Ferrari rivalry, and also more popular if not so many classes of cars so that when watching you actually knew what the heck was going on.


I wish they would creat a supercar series globally.
2 cars from each manufacturer.
Pay the drivers huge salaries, make it glamorous....only the best and brightest, etc.
The cars have to be very very close to street supercar with virtually stock engines.
Just changes suspensions, safety equipment, etc.
It would be nice to see competing: Enzo, MC12, McLaren F1-tpe cars, Nissan GTR-like, AM, Porsche Carerra GT, Saleen.....etc....you get the idea.

Just think it would be cool.

 

You hang around with too many Ferrari and Porsche owners (a minute demographic)...most of the world owns cars made by Honda, Toyota, BMW, Nissan, Renault, Mazda, BMW, Mercedes, ect...not exotics like Ferrari. I suspect once a Toyota or Honda again win a WCC, the Asian car crowd will quickly jump on the F1 bandwagon creating a fan base previously unheard of...look what that demographic has done to the growth of the previous non-existence sport now known as Drifting... to think one brand dropping out will cause F1 to dissolve is ridiculous IMHO...no one should never over emphasis their importance...we are all replaceable...

 

While I love that idea...BMW tried a similar idea with their M1 Procar series in the late 70s and it failed miserably...http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/10/11/bmws-procar-series/

 

F1 would immediately die, now stop arguing with me.

(just kidding of course)