And it's REAL UGLY...kind of looks like that car the "blue flame" that gary gabelich drove in the 70s, with that big engine on it.
Yes, that is a true statement. Until Eclipse proved there was a market down there, Cessna wasn't willing to make the investment and didn't make the leap until it was obvious that they had to compete. To their credit, they did it right and made a great product... There is one rather interesting anticdote in the whole thing... The concept of a really small light jet was originally the brainchild of Sam Williams. He got NASA to put a bunch of money into the FJX (which became the FJ-22) and that jump started the development with a huge amount of public money in the GAP progam... He sold the vision of the VLJ to NASA and they bit on it and that was how the GAP program happened. Then he sponsored the Vjet and took it to Oshkosh and got Vern Rayburn to jump on board and that was the genesis of Eclipse. In fact, in the beginning, the Williams guys were spearheading the program and a lot of airfame work was being done at Williams and in a joint facility that Williams and Eclipse set up at Walled Lake. Dispite the very good relationship that Cessna had with Williams before that, when the Eclipse came along Cessna was well and truly PO'd at Williams.. WI clearly didn't understand the Cessna philosophy of "trainer to luxury jet" all within the product line concept that is a large part of the Cessna culture... A group of WI folks went down to Cessna to explain the Eclipse/Williams "arrangement", that there were "firewalls" between anybody working on a Cessna program and Eclipse, and were trying to assure Cessna that this was really nothing for them to worry about and trying to mend the fences... Part way through the presentation somebody (way high up in Cessna) pointedly asked the WI VP who was giving the pitch.... "How dumb do you think we are?" At that point I am told it was pretty obvious that there wasn't going to be new WI engine on a Cessna product for a LOOOOOONNGGG time, and when the Mustang came along it wasn't going to have an FJ33 on it, even though that engine was fully developed and ready to go when Cessna launched the Mustang. They took the risk (which is a big deal at Cessna) and went with the Pratt. Now WI actually has very little of the VLJ market that they actually launched..... As Bill Lear once said, "you can always tell the leader by the arrows in his back".....
The inside story on the whole Williams/Eclipse thing would make an interesting book, I bet. And I'm reasonably sure they won't be be building any more Eclipses after these last few are completed. True, someone will probably take on the type certificate and make some money selling parts and supporting the existing airframes for a while. But at the price needed to make a profit, the value equation just isn't there for Eclipse. And the Mustang is so much more airplane that as the Eclipse price starts to get up in that range, it just looks worse and worse. The SJ30 is an interesting case. Have they actually restarted production? One of my brothers was involved with that aircraft for several years in the 90s. While great on paper, I think time has passed it by. It's big advantage is range-- but who wants to sit in that cabin for 6 hours? Otherwise, I'd much rather have a CJ3.
Fantastic information...I'd be curious as to who the "High up Cessna" person was??? Met several of those gentlemen recently. There are a few I could imagine who'd say something like that.
RM would have been my guess. The SJ-30 (or whatever they call it now) is apparently trying to negotiate with all the vendor base that had been on hold while SJ tried to find money. New people and new money trying to determine where they are at from the prior regimes. Jeff
Yes, one demo and one owned by Hamish Harding. He flies his family around in it. tried to sell me one. Good looking plane, but who knows if it'll make it.
FlightAware Flight Tracker is currently en route from Gander to Europe via Iceland. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd208/robbreid/N7SJ.jpg Also; Click Here for Aero-News Network TV for this weeks special report on VLJ's and the current market.
What happened to all the range that thing is supposed to have? He couldn't make it from Goose to the UK?
I think a G-II is 2,600 nm so 2,500 for the SJ30 is real close. Certainly Gander to Europe non-stop is within its capability. Jeff
What in the heck is this Eminvest SJ30 stuff? I haven't seen a single thing in Flying or Plane & Pilot and they've been following the VLJ and Light Jets closely. So it was an American company named Sino Swearingen and then Eminvest bought them this summer. SJ30 is only jet? Sounds like there are a couple flying, real chance many will come out of production? Price? Looks like the performance blows everything else away.
yeah, at nbaa they announced the change (or at least i think that's the first anyone had heard). Anyway, it was Emivest at the convention. A group from UAE threw some money at them...not sure on real production numbers. Hamish told me 150ish the first few years, who really knows. just surprised it wasn't russians buying another defunct aircraft company i guess. Don't remember the price, but I have his number if you're interested.
The SJ30 was a great airplane when it was announced, back around 1990. It totally kicked the ass of the CitationJet (also announced around the same time). Except, er, you could actually BUY a CitationJet by 1994 or so. And the CitationJet series has continued to get better and better over time, while the SJ30... has been certified and delivered one airplane. I don't really see where the demand is going to come for the SJ30. In many ways, it's a replacement for the Lear 36, with lower operating costs. I guess there's a role for that in applications like long distance air ambulance (where most Lear 36s have ended up), but still they only built around 60 36s, so that gives you some idea of the market. And those operators are usually willing to pay higher operational costs in return for lower capital costs. Incidentally, I like Learjet 35s and 36s-- I just finished my 35/36 recurrent about 4 hours ago! But I don't miss 6 hour legs in the 36, and I don't think I'd want to do it in the SJ30 either.
Gulfstream was Ed Swearingen's first partner and the jet was called the SA-30 Gulfjet, until Gulfstream withdrew. Press Release airliners.net Sino-Swearingen SJ-30 Production 001 . . . N30SL destroyed in 1999, had a shorter fuselage. 002 . . . N138BF . . . crashed 26 April 2003 Crash Details 003 . . . N30SJ 004 . . . N404SJ 005 . . . N50SJ First production aircraft model. 006 . . . N901HB delivered to Jetran Aviation in Horseshoe Bay Texas. 007 . . . N7SJ delivered to Hamish Harding of Action Aviation. Action Aviation ========================================================================================= EMIVEST Aerospace Website
006 - Jetran equal Doug Jaffee wich is the "J" of SJ-30. I do not think that the SJ-30 should be strictly considered a VLJ. It has speed and range that the others do not. Somewhere along there I suspect it must have higher operating costs and probably higher acquisition. Maybe it should be considered a Lear 23 with range. Jeff
Alright I think I finally figured out the plane that is the closest to the mustang. ready! Raytheon Premier One Yeah yeah I know its almost twice as much but I would rather have a Premier One over a Mustang. Honestly though I think its the plane that can be the closest rated to the mustang.
3 windows on each side, sure...close enough for me...breaks the cessna's rule of Million bucks per window (rough estimate) anyway.
Sorry, a little off topic, but I've been reading up a lot on personal/business jets as of late... I'm 20, don't plan on getting one, but I think they're cool. The Mustang is a small price tag, asked for 2.7m by Cessna, so what does the "V" stand for? I understand LJ is Learjet, is V stand for "Value," or something of the sort? Thanks, Colin
Very Light Jet...Cessna didn't really want that category and wanted just the Light Jet portion. $2.7 MM is now $3.145 for Q2 delivery of 2011 so saith my salesman...
