Oh, okay, cool- thanks. That's still about $3m more than what I can afford Who knows, if I am successful enough, then I'll probably have a use for it, but I really love the Gulfstreams... does anyone mind if I ask a few questions? -Colin
Go right ahead. Gulfstreams are great if one can afford the operating costs. A G-II can be bought for the same or less than BJ says is the current Mustang but the annual operating cost for the Mustand probably equal only a couple of months for the Gulfstream. Old, old info I had put the annual operating cost for the G-II at nearly $2M per year, no capital cost. Jeff Jeff
Most of the GIIs I've been around have either been parted out or headed to South America. I think that will be the fate of more and more of them. They're just getting awfully old. The ones I was around were both replaced by Challenger 601s, which seems to be the hot ticket for the large cabin on the cheap. As for the Premier 1, that is one homely looking airplane! The major negative I've heard on that is the range. And maybe the brakes? Or possibly I'm confusing it with something else.
Yes, its sad seeing all these Gulfstreams getting turned into drug runners down south. There are currently 250 'N' number GII's/GIII's, at least 1/3 are currently for sale!, and the lowest priced GII is only 800K. So if you see one at your local airport, take a photo!!! If you love Gulfstreams, this is my friends website, he is the Number One Gulfstream Historian; Gulfstream Blog Gulfstream Photos both Bob Wembley's sites.
My friend has a Cessna Mustang, (also has a Cessna 650), he flew it around the world (for charity) earlier this year and last month flew over to Russia to take a Mig-29 for a ride!!! He had both aircraft for sale earlier this year, but took them off the market due to the softening market. He just put a Universal 890R cockpit in the Citation 650 to keep him busy for a while. However his goal is to purchase the new Premier II. I'm a huge Mustang fan!, and I have a hard time looking at the Premier. He travels on a lot of biz jets, and is totally sold on the Premier. Now it isn't going to change my mind, but then again, the Premier may not look bigger, or faster, but it is. Anyway, here is Flying Magazines write-up on the Premier; Flying Magazine Premier IA (Not to mention price, over 6 million USD) And here is the new improved; Premier II
If you see a Premier and a Mustang side by side, you'd realize that the Premier is significantly bigger. And it's also 100+ knots faster. The guy I know who flew a Premier I said the useful range was only about 800 miles, though. Maybe the Premier II fixes that, I don't know.
I have enough family and friends that either sell, make or service both of these aircraft that I should know more about the premier and mustang differences, but I don't. The premier is quicker and more money but that's about where my knowledge ends. BJ
Guess it isn't that much more than the mustang...we figured 2 crew 2 adults for the max 1150 nm, but 4 adult pax would cut us shorter to the 750 range when dumping that much fuel on the mustang...I suppose you could fill er clear up if you had an anorexic convention 1100 miles away (ok, going to hell for that one), but us traditional fat boys, 230ish, we aren't putting lots of us on the plane without figuring for fuel weight. BJ
A Cessna Caravan crash in Lake Erie on the Canadian side in 2004, with a plane load of hunters - seems amongst other problems (icing) the aircraft was overloaded. The pilot had used the legal calculation for the passengers, problem was the passengers exceeded it!!! Here is the Transport Canada ruling after the crash recommendations were acted upon; In October 2004 the Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) issued two recommendations concerning the use of standard passenger weights by the Canadian air industry. In the case of the Georgian Express accident, the calculated weight for the people on board using standard weight was 1833 pounds (831 kg); the actual weight of the persons on board with their clothes was 2400 pounds (1090 kg) - a difference of 567 pounds (257 kg). Transport Canada already had initiated a comprehensive review of standard weights, following which the average weights for males of 12 years of age was increased by 13 lbs (6 kg) and by 25 lbs (11,3 kg) for females. Seems everybody in Canada put on weight!!! I'm 190lbs, but my buddy is 260lbs, I put 4 adults into a SR-22 GTS and buzz around no problem. I was kicked out of the Cessna 150's at my local club, which has a weight limit of 180lbs!!! Now back to the VLJ's . . .
yeah, trying to figure out an actual cost per mile per pound for the 35lbs I should probably lose (mustang figures). And then there's incentive programs for my pilots to keep trim, anyone ever run into one that worked?
FlightAware Flight Tracker only my second Eclipse EA500 taking off from my local airport on Friday. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd208/robbreid/N58EH.jpg and just by chance there was a CJ-3 (CitationJet 525B) registered in the 'Isle of Man' UK, M-MIKE cool registration. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd208/robbreid/M-MIKE.jpg
My favorite, speaking of tail numbers, is the OY JET that crashed his CJ into the Bay in Atlantic City...his new Sovereign is now OY WET....must have a great sense of humor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06LBgfuxgA
NTSB Factual Report From what I recall, the throttle for the right engine was bent and could not be shut off, as the water drained, as the aircraft rose when the 4 persons departed the aircraft, the engine spooled up. As for the owner, OY-JEV this is a shot of Erik Larsden in his Citation 550, before he bought the CJ. He was also in trouble in Denmark for chasing kids of his land with a helicopter. OY-JET here is the CJ2 before he wrecked it!!! OY-WET the new Sovereign. Erik Larsons company website
It was rumored that strippers were exiting the aircraft as well...just a rumor as far as I know, however, after seeing that cockpit photo...
Noticed a Premier on the ramp at MCO yesterday (looking at a VIP 737 for business). The Premier is ugly and mis-shapen on the outside. It sits high off the ground with a wing that is underneath the fuselage tube. The nose is real long too. The whole shape is just out of balance. Jeff
Yeah, I've been thinking that as well...I'm surprised it flies with the shape that it is. Who knows, I'm by no means an engineer.
That's the ugliest paint scheme I've seen on a Sovereign so far! As for the Premier, yes, it certainly is homely. Personally, I always liked Serge Dassault's maxim that "if it looks good, it should fly good."
Don't really know that the axiom is true but as ugly as a Premier is it had better have some really outstanding qualities to compensate. It makes an Astra look like a pretty airplane and that is pretty hard to do. Jeff
Westwind is right in there too sir...I believe the term is "fugly" Hey Jeff, you'd know the answer to this...I see they are making some longer challengers now. Isn't that just basically a Global express at that point???
BJ, Agree that the Westwind is not a candidate for "most beautiful" either. I believe that the Challenger you are thinking of is the CL-850. This is the new build CRJ-200 regional jet that is for the VIP market. Same exact airframe as the CRJ-200. Long range aux fuel tanks are optional which gives it a 3,100 nm range. As a new aircraft the price is about $35M with the tanks and a full VIP interior. Conversions of the ex-airline CRJs are being done by several facilities - Indianapolis Jet Center, Jet Corp, Flying colors and someone in Maine. Figure 1/2 the price of new. Size wise the interior is equivalent to a Global 5000. It has more interior length than a G-IV and the width of the Challenger so it is about 10" wider than the G-IV too. Some of them are being done with forward and aft lavatories. Jeff
Interesting...I figured "all knowing Jeff" would have an answer for me. If not, DonV would've chimed in.
I am about to be involved with a long time friend on converting several CRJs to VIP. This has made me become knowledgeable on the specifics for this airframe and all the costs. Jeff
