Ferrari prices definitely dropping....

Rebound? Not with respect to the 328 market at least. I've seen cars fester on the market a while and apparently good cars go for less than comps selling in the spring, and certainly for less than one would expect.

 

That's just wishful thinking on your and Fenzo's part. I still want to know his source for saying they are stable/rising.

 

Because he says so and he likes economics.

 

Fenzoman seems really really really smart. He's stated over and over prices are rising. What evidence do you have that he's wrong?

 

Not looking for an argument but... when a 10K mile 97 355 spyder with a service and manifolds replaced, non sticky interior in dead mint shape, non F1 can sell for 55Gs I think it's extremely cheap. Doesn't anyone else??

 

You know, you have a good point there. I was just saying to the wife the other day "...the ergonomics in these Ferraris are not what they are cracked up to be". Better sell

 

IF it were that good, please send a link.

rik

 

I guess I'll take the bait too.

Fenzoman, there is a floor, the debate is just what that floor is. How about $1000 for a 308? How about $10,000?

Yes, there is a floor.

-F

 

I apologize but...I am sooo not telling as I am seriously contemplating it.

 

The way I read Fenzoman's post, I think he believes that prices will continue to fall. I know I do. There are two low-mileage, very nice 612s on ebay with BIN prices under $150K.

 

No, I think he must have some cars he over paid for and is just whisting past the graveyard. I'm with you judge, they are going down despite what Fenzo says.

 

The ultimate status machine may be hitting the skids.

An article by John Gittelsohn in the Orange County Register brings news that Lamborghini Orange County–which typically sold 10% of the world’s annual production of Lamborghinis and counted NBA stars Kobe Bryant and Dennis Rodman as clients–has shut its doors.

The dealer won’t say why. Lamborghini put a brave face on the shutdown, saying it was the result of bad financial decisions by the dealer and that “the economy is not the reason for Lamborghini Orange County’s financial situation.”

Well, that’s a relief. For a minute there I was worried that the contracting economy, falling stocks, rising foreclosures, the credit crunch, margin calls, environmentalism, layoffs and sudden consumer aversion to over-priced status goods would put a crimp on sales of $200,000 cars that get eight to 13 miles a gallon.

Just to make sure, I did some checking with Autodata. It shows Lamborghini has sold 657 cars this year, down 15% from 771 cars a year earlier. October was even worse, down 65% from last October.

Other supercars aren’t faring so well either. Ferrari sales are down 2.6%, while Porsche’s car sales are down more than 30%.

I’m hopeful, however. The economy may be in the tank, but basketball season is just getting started.

 

Not sure how you get that... he's been repeating for days that prices have rebounded and are going to climb fast. Maybe even to exceed what they were this June... IIRC he quote a 348 coupe with an asking price of 85K that he thinks is aggressively priced in todays market. It's not October anymore...

 

it doesn't negate the closing due to the owner's personal financial problems. Who know why he went toast. That dealership will be back up and running under new management very soon IMO.

 

(and, hey, doc, not a big deal, but let's bag the honorific titles; we're all just chatters here and I sometimes find people are put off a bit. I've got enough guys unhappy with me as it is, LOL).

I think that one of the reasons the market is going to get even softer, and at a faster rate than the overall economy or automotive market generally, is that the purchasers of many high end cars are working or heavily invested in the very industries that are getting clobbered the most: investment banking, financial services, real estate, construction. The mood in Manhattan is scary, I've been told. A psychotherapist friend said that some of her most well-heeled patients are canceling sessions, apparently to save money wherever they can, even though their anxiety is increasing. Fifth Avenue shops like Tiffany's that never have sales are now doing so. I've read that, around the country, many law firms are experiencing a drop off in business and some docs and dentists are noticing a decline in elective surgeries. I know that the amount of Lasik being done has dropped pretty dramatically, although I'm not sure it's attributable to the economy.

 

Alan

The photo that really scares me, and not much does, is the one on the front page of the Business Section of today's NYT's.

It's worth searching out and taking a look at.

In my Heart I really believe that this too shall pass but the time before it does may be a bit longer than many of us had hoped.

Cheers!

Jim

 

DF1 put it best in talking about consumer aversion to status symbols at present. Be it from big empathetic hearts or the understanding that the worse things get the harder it will be to safely drive an exotic.

And I mispoke in saying there was no floor. What I meant is that the floor is way lower than some fellas here seem to think.

When you look at all the sudden decisions to sell cars on this site alone (usually claiming they're making room for someting new!!??@@!) multiply it by 100. Most Fchatters with cars for sale (quietly) would never openly speak about it here.

Combine the fact that it's the worse economy since the depression and it's GLOBAL, and you'll understand why it will be worse than the early 90's.

 

The picture of the Port of Long Beach with the sea of cars in the haze?

 

Jim, are you referring to the pic of the cars piling up at the port? I only get the Times via the web.

Dale

 

Yup.

 

Wonder what will happen to all of these??

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/economy/19ports.html?_r=1

-R

 

wholesale scrap metal anyone?

 

Don't know about that. Theres a nice one in Ferrari Club newsletter for 21k now. I almost bought it back in May, had a PPI done on it and everything, but decided I wanted a track car instead. Still, would love to have a 308 someday though. They are just works of art.
Hunter

 

I've stayed out of these threads (until now) because I'm not sure I have that much to offer, save a few data points. I'm in a 6 person Dermatology practice. Our cosmetic business is off, our general visits are off, and only my skin cancer practice is trucking along so far. I have a friend who has a Dermatology practice is New York City (Madison avenue, mostly cash only for any service). They are hearing crickets. My wife is a Pediatrician--there is a mini baby boom going on, but established patient visits are down.

Perhaps more telling is the stories I am hearing from my patients. Lots of job losses, lots of bonus holds, and, in general, fear even among those with stable incomes who have had their retirement savings stung. I have two friends who OWN large money management firms. As has been said, the global economy is bad, and credit just today is starting to tighten up again. I certainly don't understand the global markets enough to know, but they both insist that we are not near the bottom yet.

I have another friend who is highly placed within the NADA (National Auto Dealers Association). Projections (even before the big 3 bailout was being discussed) is a loss of roughly 35% of all new car dealerships in the U.S. by the end of the year.

There are, of course, folks with significant disposable income who do not care about economic sensitivity who will continue to buy/drive whatever they want. And there will be people who will test the market with cars they don't need to sell, on the off chance that there rare/well cared for/etc. version will bring a good price. And I agree with previous posts that the first big economy burp of a couple of months ago flushed folks in marginal ownership positions out to sell their cars.

But I see no way that values don't keep declining to some degree without some good economic news somewhere.