F40 prices sinking fast? Asking below $499k and no takers

Jim:

Given your stance recently, I think I can be forgiven for being sarcastic myself in return.

But I promise to stop misquoting you - not that I thought I was.

 

Huh?

Then here's an idea- let's all tell everybody else we know (and the newspapers) that the current value of our car collections, houses, stock portfolios and other assets are actually on the RISE. Will that work? Maybe we can end the financial crisis all by ourselves!!

All in good fun, Caley. But I still want some of that tobacco!

 

Why would buyers of Porsches and Ferraris with median incomes well into 6 figures need home equity lines to purchase those cars? Unless....those reported incomes are totally false.

 

I know of a 1990 red F40 for sale in Australia.

Eurospec, perfect presentation and condition, unmodified.
Non cat, fixed suspension, 9000+ kilometers, regularly
driven.

Any genuine buyers can contact me if they want more
information or make an offer subject to verifying car.
No tire kickers or silly offers please.

Owner is realistic about the price, but won't give it away.
Good chance to pick up a real collectable in a low market.

 

In a sense, you actually describe a piece of the solution there, are you aware of that? Historic sentiment is well known to push prices up and down, and this is exactly what you see in the stock market at the moment. Why do you think that a single stock or asset increases in value one day by 20 % just to drop down 20 % the next day? Because the stock or asset has drastically changed it´s substance? No - the more usual reason, in times like these, is that the investors overreact on all kind of information, and all historic turn arounds in these markets has been driven by opposed sentiment, i.e, the common feeling that it is time to buy, encouraging mass movements and then it points upwards again. So, yes, in a sense it does actually work. But try to get medias and papers to push for positive news with the same energy they spread negative news! Not as interesting, and does not sell as many issues. Financial investments are driven by many factors, but never underestimate sentiment, and as I see it, this is something this thread should respect as well.

Regards!

 

I would not use stupid to describe these actions, some of them are indeed extremely deliberate, and if you operate in these markets, I am sure that you understand what I mean. And I do not think that the journal is the main driving force for pricing F40s.

Regards

 

If you are so certain that this downturn in exotic pricing is a fabrication by dealers and flippers, then why stand on the sidelines? If you truly believe that you have figured out their game, then why tell us and spoil the upside? Buy as many as you can, so you TOO can join the dealers in the champagne party in a couple months. I do not pretend to know as much about investing as some people here, but I think this is true: If you believe an asset is artificially devalued, buy a lot of it.

Or, perhaps, your convictions are not really as strong as you would like us to think.

Peter

 

I was being sarcastic. Anyone who thinks the article in the Wall Street Journal won't effect the prices of ALL collector cars is sniffing glue.

Sometimes a picture is helpful when trying to understand what the World is facing. This one was shot this morning on what, in the past has been one of the busiest travel days of the year in the US.
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Is that O'Hare?

Peter

 

Photo is on Drudge. I think it is. I've seen a lot of scary things in my life but that one ranks with anything I've ever seen...

Happy Thanksgiving To All and may God bless and keep us always.

 

They are on Greyhound........

That's amazing!!!!!!!

I dunno, Lady Valeria's ex husband made it home...in a rusty Ford truck.....

 

Hopefully it was a 3AM last night!

Happy Thanksgiving then, to everyone!


From Franco's party last Sunday........
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Nope... GREED IS!

 

Noted. And agreed, somewhat. However the reversal of sentiment can do nothing to help the millions of people who have been "busted out" by this bear market. They will not be able to contribute to the positive sentiment and re-inflation, which is why the global economy is in danger of spiraling further downwards. Regarding intrinsic values, what better asset to examine than a collector car? Has an F40, or any Ferrari, ever really been worth the money it takes to buy one, in terms of its cost of materials or salvage value? Now that the positive sentiment ("hype") is waning, we are seeing the intrinsic values of all asset classes being questioned, hence "cash is king".

Believe me, I am NOT hoping for the economy to worsen, as I stand to lose much more than I would gain. I guess all I'm saying is a rising tide raises all ships, and vice versa. Some rise/fall sooner, but eventually they all go in the same direction. Look at the yield on Treasuries.

 

Agreed. That is really scary:

http://www.necn.com/Boston/New-England/2008/11/26/Travelers-breeze-through/1227734688.html

 

because those making 600K often have 1.8M mortgages, and private school, and gardners, and maids, and pool boys...

 

well i am a potential buyer....and a trader...so i am waiting.
as i said above and elsewhere, i am not jim or kidston, or jack barclay, or sheehan, so when i start getting calls out of the blue about big cars to buy, i know that the market has changed. hell, i even got text messages today from the ferrari dealer in zurich who i have never met !!!

i tried to put my 512bbi into the bonhams sale in gstaad, but they refused since they already had 3. then kidston tells me that there were plenty of big cars that were refused in the sale because they already had too many.......how many times have you heard an auction house refuse cars !?

that sale will be interesting and will set the tone for the 2009 market. my bet is that the results will be lower than the averages for 2008.

 

I do act on my beliefs, which necessarily do not mean that I am right. But if you consider that the discussion on this tread is about the F40s, you have to put the discussion in that perspective.

Yes, I do invest in the financial markets, and I win and loose like so many others.

But I am not a speculator when it comes to my cars, and would not sell them at low prices, simply because I do not speculate in cars or with my private economy to that extent that my margins will evaporate. And this is the simple mission that I have been arguing in this tread: I do not beleive that more than a handful of F40 owners are using their cars as investment tools and will treat them like stocks and bonds, so the prices will not fall as indicated by others.

And in europe, we do not see any proof of this whatsoever either - prices on the official sites are in fact rather stable around 280-320 K Euro, and cars are being sold at these prices, or the sellers hold on to them without offering a discount. No cars are for sale at 50% of the price from 6 moths ago, even though our stock market has declined by 50%. This is a verifiable fact, and it challenges what is beeing said here about the expected future development in F40 prices, or similar cars. There are always exceptions, but when you proclaim common trends, you must not base these on exceptions but on the majority of the market. And I can not find this in the european markets that I watch and follow.

Regards!

 

An interesting example indeed, provided that all those normally queeing are F40 owners.. *L*

The discussion is leaving it´s roots here - I am not arguing with you that the economy is bad, I am a stock market and real estate investor and notice this just like anyone else. But I do not beleive that the F40 prices will go where this thread proclaims, because I can not verify what is beeing said. Most europeean financial markets has dropped 35-50% during 2008, but at the same time, the F40 prices are being stable. Now, slowly, slowly the financial markets are stabilizing and the interest rates are sinkning. Most likely, the worst is behind us and the EU and Obahma packages are giving more hope to investors than 2 months ago. The governments in most countries has proven that they will act strongly to reverse this, and slowly it is starting to work. So - why should the F40 prices start to decline in a more stable to reversing situation, if they have not done so in the midst of the storm?

We are all speculating here, me too, since the future is never certain until it is history. But I refuse to trade facts against sheer speculation, unsupported by massive trends.
A handful of cars for sale not beeing sold does not mean that they will pull along so many others at 50% of the current prices. Show me one in europe and I will be glad to buy it, but I can not find this, so I stick to my theory, and let us see - one of us will be right and the other will be wrong. Interesting, isn´t it ?

Regards!

 

Awww cmon guys. "Really scary"???

Really scary is when you're staring down the barrel of a .357 Magnum wielded by a trigger-happy drug addict. Or your doctor telling you to get your affairs in order because you've got 30 days or less.

So less people are traveling. Thats great in many ways. Perhaps we need to change our discretionary habits and be more conservative.

Whatever the market is, I remain very optimistic and Im looking WAY beyond the current situation... things are already happening to ensure a much better future for us all, and perhaps this slow-down was the lesson that was needed. Also, those who lived well within their means and prepared for down times with reserves (as we all should) are not panicking in the least...

 

That too...

 

Well understanding the implications, the more I see these kinda things I more worried I get. If we just had a little bump in the road it would have been one thing, but the tightening of the monetary belt by Americans is something we should all worry about. Can people not fly because they can't afford it or because they choose not to. I'm thinking it's because they can't afford it.

There is a fallout happening here and I believe it's going to get worse. It takes time for the effects of everything to settle in, you should know that Joe. The problem is how these kinda things can compound themselves on an arbitrary scale. So in the beginning there is a little panic and some citizens stop spending as much, or a few businesses have to vastly cut back on expenses. Well if this isn't corrected and spreads like a virus you get this snowball of panic and reluctance that can take hold on everything involved with our daily lives. So a few people get worried, then everyone is worried and not spending money. Job losses start and it all goes to hell. This affects everyone and every industry almost. When it turns into an avalanche we have what happened in Thailand this morning. The "Mad Max" scenario is growing closer, yet still far off. The problem is that a few little things turn into a 20,000 ton freight train that no-one saw coming.

Hope that makes sense. That is what frightens me anyway, not sure about 410.

 

Youre letting your imagination run away with you...

Things are bad, no question.

But its not the end if the world, and propagating the doom & gloom sentiment is redundant at this point. It doesn't make anything better for you.

Please dont let me stop you if you want to wallow in the misery. As they say, "misery loves company" and there will be some along right here shortly








.

 

I have no interest in wallowing in any misery, just sharing my thoughts I realize we are far off from that kinda scenario, but the direction we are headed is that way. That's my point.

 

The Blue Lights were bouncing off the rain slickend streets. Jason in the unmarked white LTD was leading us back into the City. I was pretty high as we had just derailed the Cyclone and that was really something. He was drinking a beer as we rolled.

"You know that Horsey on your hood?

I saw one of those once.

The rain was coming down and we were taking fire like I'd never seen before. You could feel it. You could smell it.
There was nothing left to do. I fired the flare but didn't really think it would matter. I was ready. I called in the position
where I thought the Fire was coming from but didn't think that would matter either.

At first I didn't recognise the sound. It was a C 138 not a Huey. But when she lit I knew that Puff was putting 1 million
rounds right into my numbers and the game had changed. The fire stopped, the Huey hovered, and we ran. The door
Gunner unloaded 50 cal into the night but there was no one left to Kill. He turned to me as we lifted off and smiled.

'Damn with Puff those Bastards don't have a chance. We gonna win this war'

He had a Horsey just like yours on his helmet."

He clinked his bottle on the gearshift knob, took a swig and said:

"Better Days"