F40 prices sinking fast? Asking below $499k and no takers

I suspect that most current F40 owners (and I include myself in this description) have the car because of the pleasure of the ownership experience. I like to drive mine, I like to clean it, fiddle with it, stare at it, and then go drive it some more. I like the provenance of the car. Therefore, I don't really care about past, current or future prices. I have the car to enjoy - if and when I desire to sell it, it will be because I do not want to enjoy it any more and market pricing will have little to no impact on my thinking. So right now, I'm thinking it's time to go flog that puppy on some twisties - just the braap! sound from the pop off valve on every upshift is heaven and oh the feel of the steering, the way it dances in your hands to every road surface change, just yummy.

 

The capacity for self delusion is really amazing. I remember when we were shooting in the Philippines and a guy came out of the jungle and asked me if I knew Dennis Hopper. I told him I did. He told me that Dennis owed him some money and 20 years ago had told him he'd be back and would pay him back. He asked me when I thought Dennis would be coming back.
I figured the kindest answer I could give was: "Soon".

On Monday we got more information as to where the Market values 365BB's, Daytona Spyder's, and Miura's. In a few weeks we'll see where the market values an nicely modified F 40.

Those who want to buy an F 40 in the US have many low mileage ones to choose from. The one that inspired this thread is still for sale with a starting bid of 450K down from 499K and still has no bidders. There are several listed in FML that have been for sale for a long time. Finding a nice US F40 for sale isn't a problem and knowing what to pay for one isn't either. In this thread there is a very clear post about one that was sold at 400K by a person who's financial situation collapsed in a very short time about six weeks ago. Things have gotten worse in the USA since then and today I think the kiss it good bye price for a US F 40 is probably 350K and falling. The fall from 800K to 400K in the US in about a year is fact. The idea that Ridiculous non scientific FCHAT polls would prove anything is laughable. People will continue to spin and explain why the 400K sale proves nothing or the Black sale or non sale will prove nothing but as Bob said:

"I see through you like I see through the water that runs down my drain."

 

No question you and other's fit into the category you describe and bought and enjoy your car for the right reasons. "Most" is at best is a guess colored by the reasons you bought yours.

This is totally separate and distinct from what will happen to the price of F 40's which is all this thread is about. The price in an economic down turn will be determined solely by how desperate any F 40 owner gets vs the demand of interested buyers.

So far one FCHAT broker has stated that the market has changed: "Big Time". I agree with him. Many on this thread don't.

We shall see and what will be will be.

It's a good day for a drive in NY as well and that's where I'm headed.

 

Are you saying that the poster on this thread who told of a US F 40 being sold recently in desperation at 50% of where one sold in the US about one year ago is not true? Are you saying that Ross's confirmation of that post is untrue? "non existing" ?

 

Why let facts get in the way? Financial firms decreased payrolls by 32,000 in November, after a loss of 31,000 in October. Not expecting too many bankers to be in the market over the coming months...

 

Not to mention the total of 560K in December. Pretty sad.

I raise a glass to you and Spice and toast Better Days!

 

I'm expecting to see another 500k+ figure in the next several months. Fortunately, my father in law lived through the great depression and the lessons learned were passed down. We'll be fine, but I pray for the others.

I'll drink for better days!

 

I agree,this is really amazing. All over Fchat there are people arguing that prices are not collapsing before our eyes and will not continue to do so. Guys in the 599 thread ask for more proof you can buy a great car for $275K. A guy in the 360/F430 threads says "Just hold on and do not sell your car! That's the problem, we have to all hold on!". By and large they either question the data or blame the messenger. I guess they don't read FT, The Economist, Roubini or whatever.

This seems to be a classic case of dealing with emotional loss and the five stages of grief:

1. Denial: Example - "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me!"
2. Anger: Example - "Why me? It's not fair!" "NO! NO! How can this happen!"
3. Bargaining: Example - "Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do anything, can't you stretch it out? A few more years."
4. Depression: Example - "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die . . . What's the point?"
5. Acceptance: Example - "It's going to be OK."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."

Looks like a lot of people are still at Stage 1. Me, I have a 575M outside that I paid $138K for 18 months ago and I am at Stage 4.

 

Yes, self delusion has interesting powers, hasn´t it? In many ways, but let us keep to the point, makes things easier. The discussion at hand was not the fall from 800 to 400, or where Dennis hopper really went, but the theory of F40s at 180-200 USD. And it was not a scientific approach, of course, neither is common guesswork. But I think we could all agree that you have to be rather desperate to sell your F40 at 180 if you have recently bought it at 500. Enough desperate to let others know about it I think, otherwise it will not be sold. This is why I suggested a survey, since there are many interested buyers here to help these 180-level sellers when the time comes.

But I did not expect any answers other than yours, since I represent the group not expecting this to happen. Interestingly, there is another car, produced in about the same numbers as the F40, the Porsche Carrera RS 2.7 1973. If anything, they have become more expensive lately, so do not expect everything expensive to act like stocks and bonds.

The concept of market price is that the general price level is at a certain level. Not that a single car is sold for a below average price or that a car is unsold at a higher price. Market price is the level where buyers and seller meet and do business. In market concept terms then, as I see it, the F40 is not going towards 180 USD. My opinion is that the F40 will stay at the present level (280-320 EUR in Europe) and a little over that in the US where they have always been a little more expensive. Prices at 180 USD will not be market prices. Obviously, you disagree, and this makes an interesting debate - i enjoy it! And time will tell who will win this fictious battle of words, so eventually we will both now. Exciting, don´t you think *L* ?

Regards !

 

I totally agree with you - of all the cars I have tried, this is my favourite. Good descrpition, it really dances in your hands!

Regards !

 

No I do not. Is this your conclusion of what I wrote?
I am saying that when you predict market prices of 180 USD, you describe a situation where the general price level of F40s are at 180 USD, and buyers and sellers meet and do business at this level in an orderly fashion. It requires sellers and buyers in numbers greater than 1 or 2. It means that it is a market out there for anyone with 180 USD who wants an F40. And I do not expect this to happen because:

1. Most owners are solvent enough to wait for the market to improve in this situation.
2. Anyone offering an F40 for 180 USd will find many more than one buyer and the prices will turn up in the bidding.

If you speak of market trends and prices, you can not refer to market exceptions. They always exist. I have an F40, and it is not for sale. Offer me 1 millon USD or 2, and you will still not get it. Does this mean the market price for the F40 is 1 million? No. It just means that one exeption in the market exists.

But one of us will be right, time will tell. If it is you, I will salute your predictions here on this thread, honestly and from my heart.
But I still think you are wrong, so we have to wait and see!

Regards for now!

 

I can understand your point but as often said before: A lot of people feel pressure and are in need of Cash (and I am not refering to the famous black bus driver). The question is how many people can listen to their heart or have to listen to their banker.

 

Well Posted. I am also bemused by people who claim they will not sell something for a million dollars that can easily be replaced with an identical item for 500K on the same day.

 

Not all F40s are identical, and we all have different references for what we want.
Interesting though to hear the price 500K on this thread from you, I would have guessed lower..*L*

Regards !

 

There are three hundred and sixty four posts preceding this addition now making an aggregate of three hundred and sixty five. Or, put another way, one post for each day of a year. Gentlemen, F40s come in manifold guises. However, a very good example, in excellent condition with perfect providence will always command a very high price. And one may promulgate disparate views for another 365 posts, or indeed another 365 days. And the truth is always the same whether you kick it around for a week, a month, a year or a whole decade - for always it will be there staring you straight in the face. And the truth is, that really good and completely unmolested F40s are inordinately difficult to acquire. Accordingly, a very good F40 of the quality as described herein is most unlikely ever to be inexpensive.

 

I realize all F 40's are not identical. You posted that you wouldn't part with yours for 1 or 2 million partly because you were particularly attached to it's sliding windows.

As for the 500K I was being kind. To point out that your F 40 could be replaced with an F 40 that is for all intents and purposes identical to yours for 25% of your high number seemed sufficient to make my point.

 

We have different definitions of "inordinately difficult to acquire". Yours is a completely unmolested F40. Mine is more like my unmolested Dino. As for inexpensive I agree great F 40's will never be inexpensive. I do feel should US unemployment reach 10% F 40's will cost less than they did two years earlier even though they will be by no means inexpensive.

 

I get your point, and it is true that the sliding windows which are on only 106 cars are something I myself value highly.

But I think that most in this debate is said, and we are all locked to our positions, so now it is up to the future to be the jury of our predictions or beliefs. And this is the charm of people, debates and opinions - we all have positions in all areas of life, but what will happen is for the future to tell anyhow. So, as I said, if you are right, I will salute your predictions honestly and openly. But until then, I am in my corner of the ring *L*.

But one thing is for certain. This is one of the most fantastic drives in the world, so whatever the price, an F40 will always be something extraordinary, and I think that we can all agree on that!

Now, regards and take care!

 

Same to You.

Best

 

Time might tell you're both right ...

 

1990, 21k miles, 2 owners. completely unmodified. stock. but belts and bladders need to be done. european reg car, being offered in geneva. $318k.

http://www.autoscout24.ch/AS24Web/Detail.aspx?from=list&wl=1&lng=fra&id=5602654&qs=from%3dSearch%26make%3d27%26model%3d1732%26cur%3dCHF%26zipcountry%3dCH%26total%3d3&page=1&row=3

i suppose that 21k miles will disqualify it from being considered worthy. but this is exactly the mileage i am looking for, unraced but nicely used. unfortunately, i think this car will also be difficult to register/import in switzerland since the local main dealer does not want it to happen. and my guess is the car will need 20-30k in above-mentioned necessary maintenance.

by the way....seeing some of the recent posts, you guys keep forgetting forex. it is very likely that caley can be correct in saying that european cars will remain in the 300k euro range, which was equivalent to $495k earlier this year, but is now only $375k....and every day we move closer to parity on the currency, we move closer to jim being right at the same time...

personally i am also hoping for the swiss franc to drop since i need the car here.

 

That one looks very nice. My friends at DK can do belts and bladders on her for a reasonable price.

As for Forex I think the direction you mention is likely as well.

Is that price net of VAT or other taxes?

Best

 

its a euro reg car, dont know which country tho. the big difficulty is getting it registered in switzerland. the main importer tries to discourage anybody bringing them in and diluting their market, so they have made the rules quite difficult and the homologation process very expensive. i have thought about registering this car at my uk address and having the work done there as well (might take you up on the dk connection), but that is a path fraught with issues as well if i want to actually keep it at my geneva address. hoping for a good swiss car to come along in the spring....

 

Jim:

Every broker I knows this, myself included. This is not news.

But its not the end of the world. I tend not to argue with the market, but rather tend to seek opportunities within its current circumstances. I can tell you Im not complaining.

 

Ross:

If you have indeed already done a full inspection on this car by a dealer or a specialist please post the results so we can see how you have arrived at "20-30k" in costs.

Or are you guessing again? Have you checked what bladders cost, what a full cam-belt service will cost, labor costs, and not to mention the inevitable laundry list of ancillary issues that will manifest themselves with a 21,000 mile car that has NOT had its cam-belt service done?

We need to establish if some of the cars coming available are all that and more, and only then can you determine if $318k is a good deal currently.




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