WHOA...Max has a good idea. Cosworth.

If they plan on capping performance, all the non-Cosworth engines will be put on dyno's and he'll know exactly what each motor does. If peak output is capped and they also find a way to regulate powerbands (I can't see this not being difficult..hopefully), what's left? Transient response maybe?

 

No problem with turbo's what so ever. I do have a problem with them being all the same though.

On the same point The FIA have in the past have kept banning stuff that would have made cars more efficient, wrong move.

Agreed to an extent, but I WILL NEVER cut Max any slack, teams have been held back restricted in areas where progress could have been made ie: what good does a engine freeze do, really..? Max and Bernie will always arm themselves with more control, lets not forget the money they have both made out of F1 and my point is, it needs it back now to sustain it, invest in your business, it may appear on the outside spec engines are the answer, but I haven't heard of other options as yet why, or is it just MAX way or the highway.

I'm sure there are ways reducing cost's better than making the cars all standard.

 

For me F1 will never be the same when turbos become prevalant. To me, they were always too quiet; whether it was the Porsche 962 or the 80's F1 cars. The ear-splitting, ground shaking sound of the normally aspirated F1 engines, as they scream by you is something that every race fan needs to experience ...,.,
Feeling melancholy after a bottle of Italian red..,,
Kevin

 

Thats true ..Ah music to my ears with my fingers stuck in them..

 

The sound can not be experienced via Youtube or anything else; similar to the NHRA. The Irl or NASCAR don't compare either. (a full NASCAR field is pretty awesome though)....
You have to experience it in person....
Kevin

 

I am kinda on the fence on this one as a spec engine will allow the less well funded teams a chance to have an engine/transmission package at an affordable price.

The fact that all teams will have to use a spec transmission, i am not so fond of as it will prevent the teams that use there own transmission design. This will prevent those teams to optimize the mating of the engine to the transmission, and it can also hinder the teams from packaging and getting the suspension geometry that they desire. Formula 1 is about technical innovation and forcing them to use spec parts other than tires prevents a lot of the technical innovations from developing. Lets see cars and bikes on the road have used F1 developed technology I.E. traction control, computer controlled throttles, variable length intakes, paddle shift transmissions.........

The more the teams are limited on innovations the less likely we will see these advancements filter down to the general public, as the auto manufactures will be willing to spend the $$$ that F1 teams have used develop the innovations. One other thing is in F1 a new design takes about 18-24 months from concept to reality to obsolescence, for a can mfg. to design something and bring it to market can take 5+ years.

JMHO

 

And then there are people on here who seriously suggest a switch to ALMS/LMS: Nothing is less exciting than hearing the Diesel powered Audis swoosh by. They barely make a sound, it is pathetic.

 

Cosworth has proven to be a good supplier.
If FIA can somehow restrict manufacturers to equivalent levels of performance then I see no harm.
Manufacturers can produce their own engine or do what Mercedes did in Indy car racing and use a Chevy (really) engine with Mercedes valve covers. This gives a viable COMPETIVE option to the little guy.
Add reduced aero and this bunches the field = BETTER racing.
Mfgs have the option.
In the 70's March produced a generic tub. Coupled with a Cossie and you had a viable midfield competitor with a good driver.
Add rain and you had a potential race winner.

I'm going to beat the KERS drum here. F1 still needs innovation. There are outfits that are willing to produce a generic KERS systems vs factory efforts.

F1 needs more competitors of equal ability. This is a step in the right direction.

Ferrari will always have an edge due to their commitment, drivers, and budget.

 

Agreed on every single point.

 

Good points, However I dont share your faith in a sicko pervert.

Do not cut costs by downgrading technology, money alone cannot get you to the top of F1, ask Honda.

The teams should seize the moment and break away now!! and finish off the toad like I hope his wife will.
A budget cap is the answer and ruthlessly enforced to the penny, and I don't care how, stick accountants with them 24/7.


Finally Max :
Finally, I should make it clear that the FIA has an absolute duty to ensure that its Formula One
World Championship continues. When a problem such as the current world-wide financial crisis
emerges, the FIA must rapidly introduce whatever regulations it judges necessary to ensure the
survival of its principal championship.

We will, of course, always do this in consultation with the stakeholders and we will try hard to
accommodate the wishes of at least a majority of the teams.

However, we must recognise that in an extreme situation, not all teams may agree with our
measures. We appreciate that in these circumstances some teams might decide not to enter the
World Championship and opt instead for some other professional racing series. Furthermore,
we are, of course, always ready to sanction an international series for teams which wish to run
under regulations other than those of Formula One. We would require only that the series in
question did not fall below current safety standards and met the generally accepted criteria of
sporting fairness. We would, of course, not be concerned with the financial viability of a series
which was not part of an FIA championship, nor with the amount of money spent by participants.

 

+ 1000 F1 is dead in my eyes, in fact it died a long time ago...funny that the date seems to fall when Bernie and Max started running the show....these days I get more pleasure looking back...at what F1 was.

 

The last two years have been fantastic in my eyes.
Bernie has grown F1 into a worldwide market. Give credit where credit is due.
However any decent manager could have duplicated Max's efforts.
F1 was, is, and will be everything that it deserves to be when the proper priorities are set.
This is a series built around constructors. Priority one. The majority of constructors are now consumer automobile manufacturers.
This is now the core of F1.
Honor the constructors needs and the format will thrive.
Ignore their needs and it will die.

 

Agreed.

Disagreed:
Who's to say that the current format is the formula forever? I can easily see a reversal of trend back to the seventies with garagistes running on a spec Cosworth and few bold and proud manufacturers like Ferrari challenging them.

Not that I think that will happen, I believe the Cossies will be for a few runner up teams to fill the grid, but it is not unthinkable.

My bigger point is: F1 is alive and well and will continue so for a long time to come. The current financial crisis is a temporary concern and will pass soon. The real next challenge will be Bernie's death. But I'm sure the clever weasel has already lined up successors to prevent it from falling apart.

 

I like the idea,^ but who's to say once they are all running spec engines, Max decides he wants them greener and greener then to me, it's next case!, he can bring F1 to its knees, I bought a Ferrari because I love it!! it's sound is sex to me, do I cover the cam's with a Cosworth cover now!!, to much power in the hands of a lunatic IMO.

For now ok ..at for least next year.

 

Legal disclaimer: I'm no friggin tree hugger.

Look at Ferrari's own plans for going green: Look at the "mini" Enzo with much lowered emissions, look at their plans to use KERS in their road cars. If you listen to LdM (and you should, because he determines Ferrari's future) you see a lot of greening happening to Ferrari road cars regardless of where F1 goes.

Yes, F1 is going a bit greener. They have to for political reasons to be PC. Also it is a good test bed for new technologies, such as the cursed KERS.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but F1 and the auto industry is going greener regardless of Mad Max.

And quite frankly: I look tremendously forward to KERS. For one it is a new technology that can create a lot of mayhem and ruin somebody's run. A factor of chance and random spices up any race. Second combined with Push to Pass it will enliven the action and third it is one of those things that will divide the boys from the men. Top teams will figure it out eventually and the also runs will either screw it up or not even use it.

 

Ha ha, yes I know your no tree hugger . thats why I was pursuing that angle, you are slowly turning me to your way of thinking,
but it really does worry me, Max getting his way, I hate it.

KERS I have always been behind this idea, to me it shows F1 is doing a bit for the tree huggers, and helping to discover new ways to become more efficient, which can be passed down to production cars, and at the moment, the FIA are leaving it up to the teams to come up with the best idea, you see my main bone of contention is that, I love F1 because it should be and has been the pinnicale of engineering, breaking new ground, and I hate the fact that, Max believes freezing and making the teams have standard parts, the worst of which is the engine, it stop's advancements full stop, why should any team produce an engine that cannot be allowed to be better than the spec one! it's maddness.

I will hope you are right and there is alot of grey area, but there's sure going to be more for us to argue about ..

 

You're touching on an age old battle:

F1 should be the pinnacle of engineering, yes. But it shouldn't be the pinnacle of technology.

The difference is, that F1 should be the sport where new stuff is introduced, tested, engineered and eventually banned when it becomes mainstream. Has always been that way: Remember Mansell's championship Williams? Once active suspension was a hat from the past it got banned and rightfully so as the idea is to shift the focus back onto the drivers. We had the same thing happening recently with driver aids like TC etc.

Now they cap the engineering (or at least the hp) on the engines. Big deal. F1 engineers will now have to look elsewhere for the competitive advantage and they will find it in KERS. That will last a few years until it is standard and even Farce India has it. Then it will get banned and something new will become the new focus for engineering.

I remember somebody writing to a F1 magazine, that his VW Golf had more electronics than a modern F1 and he was right. And there is nothing wrong with that, because the electronics in his Golf were tested and engineered in F1 ten years prior.

PS: That letter was written 15 years ago and it is still true today.

 

Keep in mind throughout the engine debate that, for many of us, the "golden age" was one during which most teams ran a customer Cosworth engine.

 

Yes I can go along with that, I do like the drivers having to work for there money, however advancements must be allowed, I do want back markers mid field teams to beable to bring things to the table and try to compete with the big guns, and a way to do this IMO is to restrict the teams budgets, I admit the tricky bit is to enforce it, but then it gives the young guy paid buttons in the back office to make a name for himself.

Any ways how about a poll about it, I would but I no not how.

Spec engines... is it the way forward
Yes
No
Who cares
I'm switching off