Head to Head: 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 vs. 2008 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano

Looks like the 599 is a bit faster in the straight line....
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=4769c1746c636&car2=458d856a36a6a

 

It is enough to use a special suspension setup and a special set of tires. Not to speak of some additional hp.

A video is a video. Not necessarily the reality. However, GM (and other OEMs like Nissan) knows that some people will believe whatever they see in a video...

 

mksgr- Sour grapes. The idea is to have your own hotshoe drive the cars, just like Porsche, Nissan, and other manufacturers have done, and publish the times. The ZR1 ran a 7:26.4 lap. A Viper just beat that time. What lap times a magazine gets using a driver not totally familiar with the car are interesting and informative, but not neccessarily the best the car can do and in no way official times. The Z06 ran a 7:42.9 lap. With a Corvette Racing driver on board.

Gruss Gott
Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I wonder what it would cost to take a new ZR-1, completely strip the interior and redo it at Ferrari level quality? I'm talking everything. Redo the dash in leather, redo the interior lighting, cover the interior door panels in leather or CF, replace the seats with Ferrari style seats with CF seatbacks and piped, stitched leather. Redo the carpets in the best Wilton pile available, redo the instruments. Get rid of the plastic and replace it it leather or CF. Put in the best Stereo/nav/sat/HD radio/ipod available. I bet the total cost of the new car plus the custom work will be way below half the MSRP of a 599GTB. The stigma of cheap interiors would be gone and the performance advantage is well documented. Would it still be a Chevy? I guess it would - kinda the Sarah Palin Corvette - lipstick on a pit bull, but a pit bull nevertheless.

 

A- Not that much, most likely. $25K tops if you leave the basic instruments alone and only change the panel/faces. This would be the guy to do the upholstery work. Trouble is the outside would still look like every other C6 Corvette out there to everybody except a few car guys. Great looking, but very common.

Fernando

Prestige Auto Upholstery
6159 Vineland Ave
North Hollywood, CA 91606
Phone: (818) 753-9606

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

an upgraded leather interior can be had as an option for around 10k.

 

The factory option is lousy. I'm taking custom, top of the line interior.

 

Many Americans don't know the Sportauto magazine and its "Supertest" yet. Introduced some 10 years ago, the Sportauto Supertest is a real institution in Europe nowadays. Basically, Sportauto has been testing about 300 cars by now. Same driver, same test procedure, NBR and HHR track, wet handling, aerodynamics etc. etc.. They always state key test parameters like air and track temperature. The driver (Horst von Saurma) is a very fast and experienced driver. Most results are pretty close to factory claims.

In summary, the results of this test are (among most European and more and more Amercian sports car enthusiasts) the benchmark to look at.

BTW, Sportauto did a 7.49 in the Z06. If the factory claims 7.43 the gap indicates how fast the Sportauto test driver actually is. This test is very reliable - and independant (which cannot be said about factory claims)... To highlight this: the Sportauto NBR time of the Porsche 997TT was 7.52, the factory claims something around 7.40... You see, they don't hesitate to print disappointing results for German sportscars, that is the best evidence for an independant test

 

mksgr- I am not saying the tests are not informative, just that they do not represent the best a car can do, regardless of how good the single driver is. If we wanted to extend the same thing to F1 racing, we could just have one driver do three laps in each manufacturers' car and declare the best single lap the winner. Not much fun, though.

My comment was not aimed at us vs them for the cars. You stated you did not believe the ZR1 claim and I believe you are incorrect. Too much fall-out from cheating. Porsche accused Nissan of cheating on 'Ring times and I am not sure who came out the winner or loser there. Stink got on both of them.

Gruss Gott,
Taz
Terry Phillips

 

http://www.caravaggiocorvettes.com/dev2007/home.html

 

Of course you are right: these tests are unlikely to result in the best possible lap time ever. However, looking at (and thereby accepting) factory claims is a very dissatisfying solution if you ask me. Experience tells that OEM's should be fairly susceptible to the idea of faking lap times. You know, money rules... It is my experience that it is always wise to expect people (and companies) to act in their best monetary interest. They are not interested in telling the truth. They need to make money in order to survive.

Thus, my opinion is that factory claims are more or less irrelevant (i.e. mostly marketing driven) and that only independant tests can provide valuable data for car comparisons. Of course, these independant tests are not perfect. Still they are the best we have...

 

mksgr- I respect your opinion and respectfully disagree.

Gruss Gott
Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I enjoy my Ferrari and C6Z. I added a procharger (supercharger) and pipes for $13,000 and develop 565rwhp.
My F 430 is arguably one of the finest road cars ever made while the C6Z is a "hot rod". Allot of fun throwing around a hot rod, but never the same as a Ferrari.

 

Bob- Agree. Had two C6 Z06s (06 and 08). Handled great as long as the pavement was not too bumpy. Needed more/better rear tires. Did you see Michelin is bringing out the Zero Pressure tires fitted to the ZR1 for the C5 and C6 Z06? Much stickier than the Goodyears and supposed to last equally long. Break-away supposedly far more progressive.

Like my 575M much better, however. Hard to believe the relatively small V8 in your 430 is over half a second faster in the quarter mile than my big V12. That is one seriously high output engine.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

witnessed a 03 575 F1 (mine) and a 430 drag from a dead stop thru 3rd gear. they were neck and neck. I was in my Ford GT and started 1 car link behind both and passed them both towards the end of second gear.

this was right when I realized they were dragging and I nailed it
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Mustang- I guess most of the difference in quarter mile times was due to the launch mode on the 430. Power to weight and gearing are pretty close, so what you saw makes sense for normal starts and acceleration.

Ford really under-rated the Ford GT horsepower, which is powered by the world's most powerful truck engine. Just kidding, the undersquare dimensions do not seem to hurt performance at all. Amazing what you can do with supercharging and the Rolls-Royce engines in Spitfires and Mustangs were not high rev engines, but made a bit of horsepower.

I wanted a Ford GT, but had to have something that could carry a suitcase to the airport and bought a C6 Z06 instead. How does the GT handle and how do you like it? Have never even gotten a ride in one.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

It seems that Ferrari hasnt really been all that interested in testing around the Nurburgring, hence the slower times. GM hasnt been all that interested bar the last couple of years, even GM's previous testing procedure has been completely out of step with industry practices (standing start).

Porsche has been testing there non stop which is understandable. Nissan has been trying to impress everyone by testing their and producing questionable times.

So do I agree in the ZR1's time? Yes I do, around a track it has already shown to be able to beat the 7:32 Porsche GT2. According to Driver Republic the GT2 is capable of a sun 7:30 time.

 

The video posted earlier doesn't show this, The ZR1 walks away from the 599 the longer the race goes on, "A Shear Horsepower Race".

 

GT- The numbers in the article you posted does, though. The 599 is 2.7 seconds quicker to 300 km/hr (186.4 mph, 273'/sec) than the ZR1. Eventually they reach about the same top speed, but the 599 gets there much quicker. The video goes nowhere near 200 mph. That 2.7 second lead equates to the 599 being 737' ahead at 186.4 mph, by the way (actually a bit more since the ZR1 is not at 186.4 mph at 29.9 seconds), quite a few car lengths.

The relatively small wheels and tires on the 599 definitely compromise race track lap times for a car 600 lbs heavier than the ZR1, but with narrower wheels and tires.

Basic math is such a wonderful tool.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

How is this possible? The ZR1 runs 0-131MPH in 11.2 Seconds the 599 does 0-129MPH in 11.3 seconds. These are the magazine recorded quarter mile times, the ZR1 is easily capable of Quarter miles in the tens and will do it very soon. So from 131MPH to 186.4MPH the 599 is 3 seconds faster and has a 737' advantage. Theres no way. At 131 MPH the ZR1 has a few car lengths advantage.

 

Corvettes have notoriously tall gearing. The ZR1 has revised gearing, but it's still not short enough. Once past 150 mph, it gets into a 2.77:1 overall ratio. At which point the 599 is working with a 3.91 ratio. Even when the 599 slips into 6th at 175 mph, it's still shorter gearing at 3.27. If you have seen the print version of this article, the 599 has visibly higher rate of acceleration past 150 mph. They both hit 190 mph at around the same time.

 

GT- You posted the URL showing the Corvette takes 32.6 seconds to reach 300 km/hr and the 599 takes 29.9 seconds. I am just doing the math. 2.7 seconds at 300 km/hr is 737'. By the time the ZR1 reaches 300 km/hr at 32.6 seconds, the 599 will have travelled 737' from the time it reached 300 km/hr. You forget how much distance it takes to reach top speed in these things.

The gearing difference between the Ferrari and the Corvette is due to the nature of the engines, 6500 rpm redline vs 8400 rpm, peak power at 6500 rpm vs 7600 rpm, peak torque at 3800 rpm vs 5600 rpm.

Motor Trend's current issue has a ZR1/599 comparison test showing the same thing except they did not publish 300 km/hr times. The 599 was quickest off the line with launch control and better weight distribution, the ZR1 caught it at ~80 mph, the Ferrari caught the ZR1 at the shift to 6th gear around 175 mph. Top speed on the ZR1 200.4, 599 201.5, essentially identical, but the Ferrari got there first. Lost a front tire just afterwards, too, luckily with no damage except rubber stuck to the paint.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Taz

 

I didn't post the URL as you stated. I do feel the ZR1 is capable of much better quarter mile times most likely in the 10.70 range which is half a second faster than any Mag has run it. I don't feel the 599 is capable of any time faster than 11.20. I really am not concerned which car gets to 180MPH and I'm not going to go that speed in either. Your paying 3 times the money for the 599 it should beat the ZR1 in every speed category. I understand the guy buying the 599 is not comparing it to the ZR1 when making the purchase as Ferrari's are bought for the "Ferrari Experience" not necessarily straight line performance.

 

GT- OK. I noted you only quoted the url.

Agree. The ZR1 does not compete with the 599 in the market place.

Agree. Put slicks on the ZR1 and you are right about the quarter mile time. Do not expect to see any 599 owner doing that. Bragging rights to 300 km/hr would be more valuable to the 599, to 1320' for the ZR1.

ZR1 quicker around the N'Ring. Ferrari overweight and under-tired for that.

Need to put a ZR1 around Fiorano. Fat chance. Just hope Corvette survives the latest madness, even though they do make money for GM.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Didnt Ferrari purchase a Corvette ZR1 for evaluation purposes? My guess is that a ZR1 has already lapped Fiorano.

You cant beat Ferrari at being Ferrari, but Ferrari can certainly learn a thing or two from the ZR1 (not much though since ferrari is as close to perfection).