the official gothspeed 5.2 F355 intake project ........ prototype ...... | FerrariChat
Buy

the official gothspeed 5.2 F355 intake project ........ prototype ......

Discussion in '348/355' started by gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 1 of 4
  1. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #1 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have hinted about this project for some time and have had it completed for a couple weeks now ............ :eek: ...........

    I have run flow tests on various pre-MAF intake components of the 5.2 F355.

    Here is what I have found:

    1. The factory 355 air cleaners size is adequate for at least two reasons:

    a. the 550 12 cylinder engine uses the same size and quantity.

    b. during dyno tests (for other reasons ;) ) ...... I bypassed the air cleaners with no RWHP gains.

    2. After all other components components were flow tested. The most restrictive piece in the 5.2 intake assembly was the top air cleaner covers. Here are some percentage readings using a 3.0" straight tube for baseline (zero) reference (3.0" tube was used because that is the size of the factory inlets on both sides of the MAF.):

    a. the factory 'stock' air cleaner tops flowed 12% less than the straight 3.0" tube.

    b. the gothspeed prototype flowed 20% more than the same straight 3.0" tube.

    So in effect the gothspeed prototype flows 32% better than the stock piece!! Now of course this flow percentage improvement will not translate 1:1 into RWHP, because the intake is only part of the whole power making system.

    Here are some reasons and pics to illustrate why the factory tops flow so poorly on the 5.2 F355.

    The 5.2 355 draws from the shallow end of the air box cover. Whereas the 2.7 355 draws from the 'taller' end as does the 12 cylinder 550. The 'tall side' access allows the MAF/engine full cross-sectional flow area to the air in the box.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. zero

    zero Guest

    Apr 24, 2007
    776
    #2 zero, Dec 13, 2008
    Mmm, and on top of that a fact that cant be over looked, the 2.7s run two airflow meters,thats an airbox per meter. Were as the 5.2 type has two airboxes taking air from the shallow end, and using a single airflow meter between them.
    That to has to make one hell of a difference.
    I look forward to your project/findings.
     
  3. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #3 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    True that zero ...... ;)!! ............ though without major expenditures ...... us 5.2 owners are pretty stuck with a single larger MAF ...... :eek:

    Since it seems that more than stock HP is atainable with a very expensive carbon intake ........ I took initiative to find the 'weakest link' in the stock intake and fabricated an improved part and also make it look like it belongs in a 355 ;).
     
  4. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,232
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    #4 PAP 348, Dec 13, 2008
    Very interesting Oz! :):)
     
  5. Mr Dobermann

    Mr Dobermann Karting

    Jul 31, 2005
    162
    #5 Mr Dobermann, Dec 13, 2008
    Sorry, but i find it hard to belive that the Gothspeed Aircleaner boxes/tops flow more than a straight inlet without any piping or filter at all...

    The best thing you can do in my opinion if you wanna mess with the Aircleaners/filters is to measure the airflowmeter inlets, and find the biggest open/airfilters you can fit, and mount them there for a pretty straight inlet, BUT ONLY if you can povide at least the same minimum COLD airflow to the filters, that are produced in the closed Airfilter boxes... If cold air is not provided to Openairfilters, your engine will run worse than with the OEM boxes/filters.

    In speed/moving the car should run better with open Airfilters, when cold air is provided, but when standing still at idle it probably will run worse with Openairs, because you dont get the "Ramair"-effect. Especially with the 355, where heat is a big problem.

    So okey, this can be thing with the Gothspeed covers, if the raduis and everything is exactly rightly done, but... Sounds strange to me.

    K /// Sweden.
     
  6. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #6 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Believe it my swedish friend :D!!! There is really nothing to argue about, the stock air box cover alone is indeed more restrictive than even a straight 3.0" tube!! Any person can validate this claim on the flow bench of their choice ;)............... and the gothspeed air tops flow better than that same straight 3.0" tube.


    Here are some pics of the 'stock restrictive' air box cover vs the 'gothspeed prototype'.................. flow tests have already proven which flows better ....... ;)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,232
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    #7 PAP 348, Dec 13, 2008
    Nice!! Very very nice!! :):)
     
  8. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #8 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. Oceanic815

    Oceanic815 Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2008
    2,071
    Central Oregon
    #9 Oceanic815, Dec 13, 2008
    Lookin' sharp! Very nice work.
     
  10. carlissimo

    carlissimo Karting

    Aug 26, 2007
    110
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Full Name:
    Carlo
    #10 carlissimo, Dec 13, 2008
    Goth, Do you have any dyno numbers for the new covers vs the old?
     
  11. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #11 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    .... :)

    ..... not yet ..... as my exhaust is completely taken apart :eek: ....... but I plan on testing them against the stock covers when I get my new monster exhaust done :D.
    At that time I will also test both air top covers with stock 'paper air cleaners' and with K&N's :)!

    Here are some more stock top vs gothspeed top comparison pics:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,265
    socal
    #12 fatbillybob, Dec 13, 2008
    Goth,

    Can you explain why the goth unit with filter would flow more than a 3" straight tube? I can understand more than OEM but not more than the straight tube. Also, if you can flow more air how are you going to get the ECU to swallow it? NoDoubt can only crack the code of the 2.7 motronics and says the 5.2 is a different animal.
     
  13. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    20,976
    MD and NE
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    #13 285ferrari, Dec 13, 2008
    I will take a set in powdercoated black please!!!
     
  14. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #14 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The flow test comparisons were done without filters. I was trying to improve the 'most restrictive' component in the 5.2 pre-MAF intake. So (without filters) ............. the 'stock top' flows 12% less than the 'straight 3.0" tube' ................... and the new 'goth protoype' flows 20% better than the straight 3.0" tube ............... for a net gain of 32% over stock :).

    No need to worry about ingesting too much air, as all new incoming air mass is still measured by the MAF and is still controlled by the throttle bodies. These flow gain numbers will not translate into 1:1 HP gains ............. I figure it should gain as much as the gruppeM carbon intake if used with K&Ns or very close to it without the extremely high cost ........ :) ................. at the very worst the new tops will allow the next 'weak flow link' to be exposed ........ which could very well be the MAF itself ...... ;)

    .............. some pics of the inside of the new 5.2 'gothspeed prototypes'
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    #15 No Doubt, Dec 13, 2008
    Love it!




    *Motronics on Ferraris aren't run to capacity...so they can always handle a 20% bump in HP...maybe more.
     
  16. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #16 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
    Thanks 285 :)!!! ................. since you have almost every 'bolt-on mod' available ........ this mod seems like a logical step for your 5.2 :D ....................... BTW they only come in nero ............. ;)


    +1 ........ :)


    .
     
  17. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
    1,753
    S&R Exotics
    Full Name:
    Gary Sharpe
    #17 enginefxr, Dec 13, 2008
    Goth, did the 3" straight tube tube have a radiused inlet? I see your top does, is it a 3/4" radius?
     
  18. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #18 gothspeed, Dec 13, 2008
    The 3.0" 'straight' tube was cut straight and only deburred .............. the real surprise was how much worse (-12%) the 'stock unit' did against the 'straight tube' ..... :eek:

    ............. the taper I used is a 'progressive flare' that starts at the belows interface ....... then progressively gets smaller in radius until it meets the new 'proto air box' wall .......... the 'new builds' will use the same 'progressive flare' but will extend into the box itself a tad ....... ;)
     
  19. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
    1,753
    S&R Exotics
    Full Name:
    Gary Sharpe
    #19 enginefxr, Dec 13, 2008
    Ah, ok.
    I can see why the factory box is bad...the air has to flow over the lip protruding into the box...creating turbulance and disrupting flow. :(
    Your boxes look great...glad to see someone is working on performance items the factory overlooked!
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,265
    socal
    #20 fatbillybob, Dec 13, 2008
    Goth...you amaze me. I wonder if NoDoubt could use your box and tweek a 2.7 motronic 355 for more power than just letting the 5.2 motronic self adjust. I think that OEM bypass exhaust thing is a real POS too. Add in a 355 goth exhaust and you can get the extra air out that you are sucking in.
     
  21. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
    5,559
    TX
    Full Name:
    Sameer
    #21 speedy_sam, Dec 13, 2008
    Awesome work Goth .... As usual!!! :cool:

    Looks like your neighbors will finally find that their lights don't dim so much .... now that the Gothworks monster research factory is done! :D :D

    One question ... How does the engine cope with the increased air flow? When the MAF senses a 30% greater flow of air, will it signal the ECU to pump more fuel to compensate and keep the air/fuel mixture the same? Or does it lean out (i.e. more air than fuel). If the former occurs (i.e. more fuel is pumped), will the fuel system be able to sustain the increased flow?
     
  22. Mr Dobermann

    Mr Dobermann Karting

    Jul 31, 2005
    162
    #22 Mr Dobermann, Dec 14, 2008
    If you claim that you will get apx 32 % more air flowing towards the intake/engine, im almost sure you need to do something about your Airflowmeter. Otherwise it will "hit the roof" and will not be able to measure the airflow correctly.

    Im not arguing, just telling you...

    K /// Sweden :)
     
  23. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #23 gothspeed, Dec 14, 2008
    Thanks enginefxr :)! ....... I believe ferrari used the 'existing' 2.7 355 and 550 air box on the 5.2 355 because they already had it ........ but since they did not want the 'ferrari logo' upsided down they tapped the air from the shallow end and squashed the inlet ...... :eek:

    Thanks FBB :)! ...... the monster emissions legal 355 exhaust is already designed (without bypass valves), jigged up and fabrication is about 60% complete ........ :cool:

    Yes ...... the same as the gruppeM intake ...... the MAF will read the new air mass and compensate accordingly ....... the ECU is designed to make these adjustments ................ as when driving at less dense, higher altitudes the ECU pulls back fuel to compensate for thinner air .................... and when driving at cold low humidity sea level the ECU will add fuel to match dense air :).

    The motronic on the 355 is designed to feed the engine at full throttle, in top gear all the way to red line ............. that is a lot of fuel flow :)!!

    The engine will not be 'force fed' 32% more air ...... the engine will only draw air according to throttle position, cam profile and RPM. The benefit to this mod is there will be 'less restriction to flow at higher demands' ........... the MAF will still read all incoming air mass then transfer that data to the ECU and make appropriate air/fuel ratio adjustments :).
     
  24. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2006
    2,713
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Eric
    #24 3forty8, Dec 14, 2008
    Should be fine. Bosch MAF's are accurate up to about 1.2 bar to account for driving below sea level, high pressure systems, etc.
     
  25. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #25 gothspeed, Dec 15, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
    Thanks Eric! ........ I can't wait to get this tested on the dyno to see how it will translate into RWHP! I know when I tested a similar 'surrogate' setup I actually felt a 'seat of the pants' difference for the better :)! That is why I have continued this project .......... ;).

    I will be testing it a few ways:

    1. complete stock intake setup w/stock paper filters (for baseline)

    2. the gothspeed tops w/stock paper filters (mod 1)

    3. the gothspeed tops w/knewly aquired K&N's from daniel (mod 2)

    Does anyone want to guess on the RWHP gains if any :)???????
     
Page 1 of 4

Share This Page