TR/Boxer crown and pinion solution! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

TR/Boxer crown and pinion solution!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Newman, Dec 22, 2008.

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  1. Rossa a nord di

    Rossa a nord di Karting

    Apr 30, 2008
    210
    Barrie, Ontario, Can
    Full Name:
    Brent Pilon
    ""QUOTE"" I did some research on this before having them made, I posted on it in the old F talk site a guy who quoted me around $3500 for a set, he has made many for Daytonas and such, Ferrari uses a unique gear design which is why they are a pain to reverse engineer, I hope yours works well and lasts but not to be a downer from what I have learned from the pros such as Francorchamps is the re engineered sets are never the same quality as Ferrari and just don't last, lets hope they are wrong """"""

    I Guess it's like everything. I heard that as well in my research but the guy that made these for me said that a gear set is always more precice when it's made from the original rather than from a drawing.
    He already tested it on his machine and said they are absolutely quiet and perfect and identical to the original to within 1/10 000 of an inch. This guy boasted about the gears like he was he was talking about his son starting at QB for the Dallas Stars.

    After examining every inch of the gear set I am fully confident and very excited as well.
    Brent.
     
  2. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    The ring nut for the pinion shaft up front can come loose and cause the pinion to walk damaging the gearset. Im not sure of the recent need for gears for the TR's but it seems to be a common problem lately. Brents is toast but were not sure why and the carrier didnt break plus the bearings look undamaged. We'll be replacing them along with the gears, should be a nice unit when its done. You can just take the M carrier and bolt your existing gears to it, change the carrier bearings and reset your gears to spec.
     
  3. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    Apr 26, 2006
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    Interesting observation, Paul. I've rebuilt a few BB and TR gearbox over the years and found some where the pinion shaft nut was only peened on one side...Considering what's "at stake" here, I always use a new nut and peen them on both sides. On a side note, most if not all of the other Ferrari gearbox that I have rebuilt have had these nits peened on both side.

    Maybe there's more to this than meets the eye...

    Thanks,
    David
     
  4. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    Brent,
    This really is my concern, but everytime I see you posting I mix your name up with Bent Pinion. I think I need to see the doc again. Oh, I think you mean Dallas Cowboys?

    John
     
  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Right now the only people that need to be worried are Brent mainly and myself. Having a gearset made was out of necessity and after seeing them and knowing who made them Im not worried in the least. Outsiders looking in are expected to be sceptical and thats fine. We'll continue to move forward and post the findings good or bad.
     
  6. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    #31 jratcliff, Dec 23, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
    What are you talking about? Are you making fun of my adult dyslexia?

    John
     
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Bent Pinion lol.
     
  8. Shemmer

    Shemmer Formula Junior

    Jul 8, 2007
    623
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Sounds very exciting Paul, I'll be watching this thread closely.
    :)
     
  9. Rossa a nord di

    Rossa a nord di Karting

    Apr 30, 2008
    210
    Barrie, Ontario, Can
    Full Name:
    Brent Pilon
    Dallas Stars!! Mistaken like a true canadian.
    But you do have me thinking about a name change again. I've always wanted to be "Max Power" ever since I read it on a hair dryer, but "Bent Pinion" has a ring to it and is rather appropriate.
    Take Care. Brent.
     
  10. tessmania

    tessmania Karting

    Oct 20, 2006
    110
    Ireland
    As i wrecked my crown and pinion a couple of years ago i can only say this is fantastic. Kepp up the good work and keep us posted. This could be a great answer to many prayers.
     
  11. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    Thanks for understanding Brent. I see things slightly aschew from others, which can be good and bad.:) If you have seen any of my posts then you know that I am all for improvements and choices. I have done many to my TR and look forward to the next. It still has the character, but with improvements based on refining the troublesome areas. I had planned to machine a new carrier myself, but if you beat me to it, great. One less thing to stop a machine at my shop.

    John
     
  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #37 Newman, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I took Brents Carrier apart this afternoon and everything looks nice. I needed to open it up so I can have a bullet-proof copy made. The material we're tossing around is stainless steel but thats just a thought, nothing is final. The pictures speak for themselves. Its really quite simple inside and with either a good carrier assy or one thats broken at the weld, the internals should still be servicable and can be swapped to the upgraded carrier forever eliminating carrier failure down the road.

    The final shots show the weld, im having it magnafluxed tomorrow just to know if its good or not.
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  13. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    You might want to look at either 4130 or 4140 commercial heat treated aircraft quality steel (usually runs rc 29-34). It would have better tensile and yields along with being much cheaper. Getting a stainless in suitable strength such as 17-4 H1025 or such at the required diameter would be rather pricey.

    John
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #39 Newman, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    Stavax was the stainless we were considering and it runs rc 28-32. 4140 compares with the stavax in price, a little more but not much. 420 stainless is another option at higher cost and probably way too good for the application. Feel free to give your expertise here.

    Thanks
     
  15. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    #40 jratcliff, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    I'm not familiar with Stavax. What I've been able to find out is it's a modified 420? I know I've never cut it or seen it in any applications. Can you tell me who typically uses it.

    Thanks,
    John
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #41 Newman, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    Used a lot in the mold industry. Made by Uddeholm in Sweden.
     
  17. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
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    I saw where Bohler handled it. Of all the industries I've been in I've never done any mold work. Kinda of a specialty in itself. I think I'll get the specs and see if I can get some to test.

    Thanks,
    John
     
  18. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,060
    Very very v e r y nice!

    Regarding the pix of the carrier: Is that a crack I see in the picture (irregular line just inside the welded edge diameter)? Is this a pix of a failed carrier? I wonder if it makes sense to pull the end plate and take a peek at the weld. Look for signs of trouble.
     
  19. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #44 Newman, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
    Not sure if its a crack or not and Ive been looking hard at it. The carrier is assumed to be good for now. Ill pull the bearing tomorrow and get it magnafluxed. I dont like the look of it even if it is good. When I do my EO ill be installing a new carrier and probably a different axle ratio while im there. If I wasnt replacing the carrier for prevention I would still pull it and have it checked prior to putting the engine back in and replace the carrier bearings/set back lash etc.
     
  20. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Good day Paul and Brent!

    Indeed, I second what 2Dinos said! Fantastic!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  21. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    Paul
    How much did you say the new carrier was, and is it possible to provide me with one?
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Sam, now we just need you to make up some dinoplex's.

    Yes I can supply you with one, tomorrow ill have it at a machine shop for a guesstimate on the price. So as of yet no price but ill keep you all posted.
     
  23. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Paul,

    I do not know if you are joking or not, but updating the Dinoplex's are not a problem. I can easily retrofit a bad Dinoplex with a modern equivalent... and, for those who are a stickler for details, I could embed circuitry to replicate the high frequency whine that the originals produced (to combat the acoustically superior/cranky concours judges :) ).

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  24. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    But, if you could only make those BBi ignition boxes emulate the sounds of a 365bb with the Weber at full song....Paul would be in 10th heaven! (Boy, do I crack myself up...)

    David
     
  25. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Somehow I dont think Im going to be beside myself after a ride in a 365. Get your smack talk in now while you can, spring is fast approaching beavis.
     

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