Bizarre experience with local Porsche dealer

SpecialK43 · Jan 4, 2009

pks41805 said: ↑

If I was trying to separate a man from 80 large, I would be sweet as honey.
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I'm pretty sure this sums it up for most

ylshih · Jan 4, 2009

JoeZaff said: ↑

To the suggestion that there was a quid pro quo with the porsche dealer, there was not. I had felt bad for not being able to close the deal immediately and had thought I would extend an olive branch to him and let others know what a great deal his dealership was offering on this particular car in hopes he could close the deal with somebody before the end of the month. Obviously, since there was only ONE car available at that price, by letting others know about it, I would almost guarantee that I would not be getting ANY car at a similar price.
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That was what I meant by "quid pro quo", not that there was a special consideration in the future with that dealer, but that you felt you were giving him something (referral) in exchange for his time spent with you.

JoeZaff · Jan 4, 2009

ylshih said: ↑

That was what I meant by "quid pro quo", not that there was a special consideration in the future with that dealer, but that you felt you were giving him something (referral) in exchange for his time spent with you.
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Sorry, I must have misunderstood your post. That's exactly what I did. Whenever someone takes the time to work with me, I always try and help them out...its a Karma thing.

Huskerbill · Jan 4, 2009

JoeZaff said: ↑

Of course, I was not a "tirekicker." as has been suggested. Those who know me, know that my lease on my LR3 is up and I am anxious to move into something different. There were factors that ultimately led to me not choosing a Porsche, which having nothing to do with the company at all. In the end, I THINK I am going to go with a Mercedes R350, a car I had not previously considered.
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You were a tire kicker.

You called him up and asked for his best price. He gave you a price that should have had you buying. Instead, you told him you couldn't buy. Then YOU called him back to check on that price again because you thought it was too good to be true. He said it stood. Then you came up with another reason why you couldn't buy. In the end, you didn't buy a Porsche.

Now I am sitting here trying to figure out how you managed to waste MY time in addition to the sales guy's.

JoeZaff · Jan 4, 2009

Huskerbill said: ↑

You were a tire kicker.

You called him up and asked for his best price. He gave you a price that should have had you buying. Instead, you told him you couldn't buy. Then YOU called him back to check on that price again because you thought it was too good to be true. He said it stood. Then you came up with another reason why you couldn't buy. In the end, you didn't buy a Porsche.

Now I am sitting here trying to figure out how you managed to waste MY time in addition to the sales guy's.
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That's not what occured factually. But does it really matter?

If I am just a tirekicker, then, in this economy, a tirekicker is better than an empty showroom.

In the end I didn't buy a porsche. In retail, every call is a possible lead, not every one will lead to business, but you should always position yourself as if it may...especially in this economy. If he thought it was an exercise in futility he probably would not have answered my call.

Putting that aside, What I would love to know is how "I" wasted your time. YOU chose to respond, I did not invite you to. I assume that you are capable of budgeting your time and determining what is an effective use of it. Therefore, I can only assume that your choice to read my post, click the necessary button and type not one but two responses, indicates that you believed it was worth the effort to express your opinion. Thank you for that, but don't pretend that I am somehow responsible for any regret you feel over expending the energy, any more than you are responsible for the energy I have spent responding to your post. Of course, in my instance, I am burdened with the additional knowledge that I am responding to a post that did not add anything substantively to the discussion, that is, outside of designating me a tirekicker. But I am glad you were able to get that off your chest.

Personally, I think this topic has been beaten to death and has grown quite circular, but what do I know.

desmomini · Jan 9, 2009

ylshih said: ↑

I agree with you in general, particularly if you're up front about your intentions. When I'm still in "consideration" mode, I walk in the door of a dealership and a salesman meets me, I tell them up front, "I'm going to buy a car, but not today. Today I'm checking out what these are like. Can we go take a look at one and test drive it?" If a salesman does what you described (brush off or a high-pressure rush), I absolutely agree with you, that salesman will never get my business. Of course the salesmen like the impulse buyers since they get immediate rewards and a higher ASP, but they should be familiar with the more thoughtful buyers with any time in the business and react accordingly.

But when you're done with your research, it should no longer be a case of "10's of thousands of dollars can certainly justify a day of consideration". It then becomes a question of: were you serious or not? I think that's particularly true of internet/phone sales discussions. It seems that most people who are hitting the phones have done their research and are now price shopping and the salesmen know that and they know they get one, maybe two, shots at a price; so they're more likely to come up with a "this is a real deal price, are you serious or not?"
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Yes, you're right, I'd agree completely.

cat1pro · Jan 9, 2009

if someone calls a second dealer to ask for the best price they should be ready to buy. if you are still shopping the window sticker price should be fine to begin doing your research. when you have narrowed your search to one vehicle putting dealers in competition is fine. i must say i think you are a tirekicker. please accept my apologies

JoeZaff · Jan 9, 2009

cat1pro said: ↑

if someone calls a second dealer to ask for the best price they should be ready to buy. if you are still shopping the window sticker price should be fine to begin doing your research. when you have narrowed your search to one vehicle putting dealers in competition is fine. i must say i think you are a tirekicker. please accept my apologies
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no apology necessary. I can't stress this enough...I have no problem being called a tire kicker, or anything else. I put the fact pattern out there and invited opinions, I certainly did not expect everyone to agree with me...if I had, I would have slanted the story in my favor. I can see where you would draw your conclusion and I agree with your rational and appreciate the manner in which it was presented. Of course, whether I was or was not a tirekicker, the dealer will never know. So, the question would be, tirekicker or not, was the dealers behavior appropriate. I think people have come out on both sides of the issue. Maybe I was wrong, and I think I can live with that and the input received in this thread it will definitely be something I consider should I ever come across a similar situation.

Thanks for your input.

As a PS, I always feel compelled to respond to threads I have started, out of a sense of board etiquette. However, so not to offend, if it is all the same with everyone, this will be my last response on this thread. This is something that occurred almost a month ago, and while I realize this thread may last forever, and new people may be reading it for the first time, I have really said all I can. Thanks again for taking the time to respond, whether you agreed with me or not.

CCns23 · Jan 9, 2009

Joe....you crazy tirekicker

I'll see you again next week @ C&C. Don't think I'll make it tomorrow due to weather. The P-car doesn't like the white stuff

jmn · Jan 10, 2009

Huskerbill said: ↑

This one is ALL YOU. He is not at "fault" one bit.

1. You called him for a good price.
2. He quoted you a good price that would catagorize you instantly as a buyer or a tire kicker.
3. You told him you couldn't do it right now (He now assumes you are a tire kicker).
4. You call him back to "make sure the quote was legit".
5. He says it is if you come down right now (Again, checking if you are a tire kicker)
6. He then tells you that "tire kickers" call him all the time and you need to pass or play (now giving the final check to see if you are kicking tires).
7. You pass (validating yourself as a tire kicker).

I am not sure why you are questioning whose fault it was. You called to get your quote. At this point, the determining factor is price- since there is no test drive, show of the car, etc.. He gave you an unreal price. You then found a reason to NOT buy the car and basically wasted his time. Guy gave you everything you were looking for except the reach-around. Hard to give those over the phone.

You were the very "tire kicker" he thought you were. Gave you a good reason to buy the car from him and you somehow came up with a reason to NOT buy it. That's a classic tire kicker.

Your "fault".
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Totally agree. It's just a deal, he saved himself a lot of time by simply offering you the car at his absolutely best price to see if you were a buyer. You weren't. I love these kind of salesmen. Cut to the quick, don't waste my time or yours by trying to schmooze me or kiss my ass. A purchase to me is not about getting my ego stroked, it's about buying what I want at the price I am willing to pay- that should be how it always is for BUYERS. He deftly identified you as tire kicker.

BoulderFCar · Jan 10, 2009

jmn said: ↑

Totally agree. It's just a deal, he saved himself a lot of time by simply offering you the car at his absolutely best price to see if you were a buyer. You weren't. I love these kind of salesmen. Cut to the quick, don't waste my time or yours by trying to schmooze me or kiss my ass. A purchase to me is not about getting my ego stroked, it's about buying what I want at the price I am willing to pay- that should be how it always is for BUYERS. He deftly identified you as tire kicker.
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+1. I value the sales guy that just nets it out.

bounty · Jan 12, 2009

I would have felt offended and moved on without a thought. I'd be fired on the spot if I tried to get away with this level of client service in my industry.

Don't worry though, the days of selling 80k SUV's left and right are long over for the next few years...he'll have to have an attitude adjustment if he wants to survive.

zygomatic · Jan 16, 2009

It seems to me -- and my experience isn't selling cars, it is selling professional services -- that the dealer did a poor job of reading his client. I don't think anyone would argue that honesty isn't rewarded in sales, but the salesman does have a choice as to how he presents that honesty. With some a testosterone-laden appeal to the ego works well, with others it needs to be a bit more gentle.

That said, it is entirely possible the dealer was simply tired or frustrated or didn't care, and that he was simply venting or taking his frustrations out on someone. Which isn't the best business practice, but is entirely human.

BAKY · Jan 16, 2009

No offense but it sounds to me like you might have wanted a blow job than a Cayenne for your mother.....the saleman was up front, honest and correct.....you DID NOT buy the car.

I just bought a Mercedes CL63...I dont give a rats a__ about the saleman, but he was a really nice guy. I want the car I want, at a great price. Nothing more nothing less. We agreed on a price, wired money, and set up shipping in under 30 minutes. When I buy a car, I buy the car not the saleman.

docmirror · Jan 16, 2009

I can't help but think that the salesman is posting in a 'car sales' forum somewhere right now:

"Weird sequence with a tire kicker last month

So, this guy calls me and asks for a lowball price right on the first cold call. I give him a killer price, cause I know he's gonna walk, and sure enough, he calls back to check it cause no one else will meet my price. He still wouldn't bite. Oh well, I'll get more from the next fish........"

parkerfe · Jan 17, 2009

JoeZaff said: ↑

I don't know if I am mad or stunned, or if it is my fault or theirs...but let me get this off my chest.

I purchased a Cayenne recently for my Mother at a local dealer. Unfortunately, when I went back to lease another one, they could not meet my pricepoint. I contacted another local dealer, who gave me a REALLY good price. However, my wife asked me to hold off for a few days, because of some personal stuff that needed to be addressed. Anyway, I called the dealer to thank him for the price and tell him that I would have to wait a few days to make a decision to see how this thing shakes out. I was about to tell him that I would post his information on this site (with the usual caveats) so others could use his services when the most peculiar exchange took place.

I told him, before I publish anything on the web, should I have any reason to doubt that his price was 100% legitimate...he paused for a second and then said that the price he quoted me was really just an attempt to call my bluff because he didn't think I would come to him, but, yes, he would honor the price if I came in the store today.

He then went on to tell me that people call him all the time, and come up with some excuse why they cant buy the car and sometimes it is 15 year olds on the computer. I understood where he was coming from, but he seemed to be aiming his comments at me in particular. He then stated that I should pass or play... I told him that I thought his tactics were peculiar for someone selling Porsches and that I would expect it from my local GM guy. I also told him that, regardless of what he thought, it was probably a better business case to keep his musings to himself. We did not argue or anything, no raised voices--the exchange was done entirely in a professional tone. We hung up and thought about what had happened. I called him back and told him that, in the end I rather pay more from my dealer than have the level of mistrust I had with him (albiet not said as crisply)--again we did not argue, but discussed my disappointment and he again assured me that it was up to me I could pass or play and he reiterated what he had said earlier. Other things were said as well, that aren't terribly relevant. Nothing overtly offensive was ever said, however I found his comments offensive and rude.

What are your thoughts, because my jaw is still somewhere around the floor. What I really want to know is...was it me or him? Because I can't figure it out. I naturally assumed that in this economy, when people are not that anxious to buy a luxury item, that a dealer trying to move a Porsche Cayenne of all things, would treat every potential customer like gold....maybe not?

Please don't try and guess the dealership. It is not about the dealer, everyone has different experiences at different places and one person's nightmare can be another's dream experience. Furthermore, maybe he was having a bad day, etc., and in this economy, nobody should lose business over what may be a giant misunderstanding.
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Get a grip...you're buying a car, not looking for a date!

wings · Jan 21, 2009

Most salesmen I have dealt with only care, and rightfully so, how much money they can make on the deal. Its always about the money because, after all, it is a business. If the can't get what they need from you they WILL wait for the nexy guy and they won't miss you one bit. If they feel that, for one reason or another the car may be hard to unload for whatever reason, economics, wrong color, then they will deal at a lower price and be more receptive. Its their living and they really are not looking to be your friend. Too many buyers of cars, especially exotics, get too emotionally involved when they negotiate because they are drawn to the car so strongly. Believe me salesman, who sell cars for a living, do not fall in love with them like many buyers do. They are just a commodity to make $ from.

CCns23 · Jan 22, 2009

OK.....I think it's time to let it go
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