GT4 Engine Dead | Page 4 | FerrariChat

GT4 Engine Dead

Discussion in '308/328' started by brook308, Jan 2, 2009.

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  1. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,258
    Indiana/North Carolina
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    JIM
    I'd love to see more pics of your car!

    JIM
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,253
    socal
    WOW! I have not used a synchrometer in years but used to use one all the time. I can't remember if synchrometer was a generic product or a specific brand. Anyone know? Either way I'd post "post#53" onto the "older" car boards which may save another ferrari engine. What bad luck! Hopefully you will gather it all back together and be up and running soon.
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,662
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    I am going from a bit of memory here.

    Did not have much problem with the starter wire on the GT4
    Did have to remove the 1-4 header, no way around it. Do remember to leave it in the engine compartment BEFORE the engine goes back in.
    Take the heads to a regular machine shop and remember that it is just a 2V V8. Does not require any special spec or service other than a valve job. If they give you that "special service Ferrari tax," tell them to stuff it and take it some place else.

    Great to see the female mechanic helping out.
     
  4. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
    346
    SS Coast, Australia
    Full Name:
    George
    That's my thought too YellCab.

    I have had alfa 2l twin cam heads done and the pricing wasn't too bad.
    Sure the parts may be more expensive but the labour is the same as the alfa/fiat.
     
  5. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 23, 2003
    100,524
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Peter
  6. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,258
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    JIM
  7. Modeler

    Modeler F1 Veteran

    May 19, 2008
    7,330
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    a.n.other
    That's the coriolis effect. Southern hemisphere and all that.
     
  8. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,060
    Great to see you're moving on it. Hope it's back on the road soon. After you're all done, hopefully this episode will be faded out by better experiences. How long have you owned your GT4?
     
  9. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
    346
    SS Coast, Australia
    Full Name:
    George
    Thanks 2Dinos,

    I,ve had the car for just over a year now. I'm going to keep it.

    From what I've seen it will run much better once rebuilt.

    Hope to have it running again in the next couple of months.

    Cheers

    George
     
  10. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

    Oct 11, 2007
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    Brett
  11. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
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    maurice T
    George if you get a chance could you post a good pic of the front guard that has the Ferrari shield on it?Thanks
     
  12. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    George, very sad and shocked to see this, as I am sure everyone is. That is NOT something I ever would have imagined happening using one of those tools. At 17 I was taught by an old white haired englishman how to sync the twin carbs on my MGB with just a hose in my ear and the other end stuffed in the carb throat, and adjust by listening to the sound (its quite loud actually). Over the years I always meant to buy a "real" tool, but just never did. That old man tuned Jags and Ferrari's by sound, and claimed the tool wasnt necessary.

    In any case I have always felt a bit odd (cheap?) about not owning a real sync tool, but after seeing this, no more. I would even argue that sound pitch changes may be more accurate, but who knows. At least nothings going to get sucked into your motor. Another way is to use mercury manometers like are used with motorcycles. But the ones available are generally of very cheap quality (the tubes are plastic and not of accurate inside diameters) and they do not all climb to equal levels with equal pressure. The argument has also been made that you cannot always get equal readings with the Empi tool, due to configuration changes from carb throat to carb throat.

    I am glad to hear you are toughing it out, amazed seeing the motor is out already. Your son will get a good lesson from your work (and learn a few new words), and the end result will be worth all the effort. I dont know whats happening down under, but up here where water spins the other way the market is not good at all. Its hard to justify spending more than a car is worth just to fix the engine, but if we dont, their numbers will continue to drop. Good luck, and keep us posted.
     
  13. samba-lee

    samba-lee Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2006
    677
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Lee Griffiths
    Gulp! I used the very same cheap EMPI meter last year to sync my carbs - I did it on my birthday! it would have been a bad birthday present if my brass bit had fallen out. Time to buy a new meter or fit a gauze!

    So next time I drive the car I'll be playing the sodium valve lottery! don't know what's in there maybe it's time to save up to have the heads rebuilt...

    Lee

    '77 GT4
     
  14. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
    346
    SS Coast, Australia
    Full Name:
    George
    #89 brook308, Jan 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Maurice,

    Pics of recessed gaurd SF embelem. I had a look inside the guard and couldn't see any obvious recent panel work so it was either factory or done a long time ago.


    As the engine wasn't running (only cranking) when the damage was done all of the piston crown bits were in a pile under #2 cyl.
    There were no pieces in the sump.

    The pistons are the orginal 4 ring type.

    I'm taking the heads for recon/repair tomorrow and will be getting a parts order together in the next couple of days.

    I'll replace the big end bearings all the rings and the faulty piston with an orginal 2nd hand one.

    Front and rear seals are to be replaced and the timing gear bearings and seals.

    If the water pump can be done in the car which I assume it can, I'll leave it as it was OK.
    The clutch has less than 1mm of wear but the flywheel could do with a resurface.

    Other than that I hope to be back up and running soon.

    Cheers

    George
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  15. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
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    George
    Thanks Paul,

    I'd love to have someone teach me how to tune a carb by ear.

    I've had a listen to the Webers with a tube and could hear differences between cylinders but did't have a clue what was bad or good hence the carb balance tool.

    Cheers

    George
     
  16. Modeler

    Modeler F1 Veteran

    May 19, 2008
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    a.n.other
    #91 Modeler, Jan 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My father could do it but he had perfect pitch. I can get a pair of SUs balanced that way but not a pair of DCOEs, let alone 4 DCNF or such.
    If you don't want to outlay for a multi-tube stand these things from yamaha make a good alternative. The tube pivots. Called Uni-sync.
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  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    George

    Do the water pump now when you can easily get to it. While the engine is in the car, you have to remove the timing belt covers to get at the water pump. Sounds simple enough until you try. You need to unbolt the engine from its mounts, jack it up and dick around with the cover to get the 5-8 timing cover off.

    Do yourself a favor, get a water pump rebuild kit for $75 and do the pump while you are waiting for the heads.
     
  18. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,258
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    JIM
    You know, not to hijack, but I don't have to do any unbolting of the motor to get the timing covers off on my '74 GT4....is this due to a slight change somewhere? The 5-8 bank is tight to get off, but I don't have to move the motor.

    Just a data point...

    JIM
     
  19. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
    346
    SS Coast, Australia
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    George
    Hi Rizzo,

    I'm waiting for parts at the moment and the machine shop.
    The liners were not above the block deck as required so the liners had to come out and the block had to be decked. The damaged head has been repaired but as of about a week ago the block still had 4 head studs stuck in it and the heads had not been reassembled.

    Gerry is getting the parts together for me and I'm now just wating on the con rod nuts and a gear reduction started from the US.

    I pulled the water pump apart last night and the thread that hold the impeller on is pretty crap.
    So I'll either have to get a new shaft/pump or have the shaft repaired if possible.

    In the mean time I've painted the cam covers and had the alternator rebuilt.

    So I'm still about two weeks away till I can start the rebuild.

    I hate not being able to take the car for a run on the weekend. The sooner I get it running again the better.

    Cheers

    George




     
  20. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
    346
    SS Coast, Australia
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    George
    #95 brook308, Feb 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bit of an update for those interested.

    I've got the heads & lock back from the machine shop. As it turns out the block didn't require decking as the liner protrusion was within specs.

    The heads have new SS exhaust valves & 1 new inlet valve and guide for #2.

    I pulled the sump pan off in readiness to fit a sump baffle upgrade.

    The pistons and rods will be going to the machinist next week to have new small end bushes fitted.

    My neighbour is going to CC the heads for me and do some port matching on the weekend. Hopefully I'll learn a few things.

    Cheers

    George
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  21. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    Its all coming together now George :D.What did you do about the pistons?
     
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Me like the crinkle painted valve covers ... used to have mine just like those.
     
  23. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Paul
    Now THATS the way a cylinder head surface should be machined, a nice shiny smooth surface. I get really tired of seeing shops machine aluminum heads like they do with cast iron heads off a Chevy. Those look very nice.
     
  24. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    So you're only replacing the big end bearings? How do the main crank bearings look?
     
  25. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    One more thing regarding the rest of the cylinders. Are you just having them dimple honed and then mounting the pistons and new rings? No sense in having them bored if they are in good shape. A good roughing up to mount the new rings is plenty in many cases.
     

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