BEST TRACK CAR?

You can find a T1 class C5 ZO6 with a full cage and all of the stuff that you need for tracking the car for less than a good used C6 ZO6 that you would have to prep and put all the stuff into.

It is plenty fast for a track day car and it is more fun than a C6 since it is a bit stiffer and more direct feeling, almost as fast and is a lot more fun to drive...

You can plate it and drive it to and from the track... In terms of bang for the buck it is really the best thing going...

 

That's why I told J Salmon to get his Lola T-440. A "Club Ford" that can be used in vintage, SCCA, VIR Member Club Days and is more flexible than most at a budget that beats nearly ALL! Dave, I can tell you that at least on the East Coast, vintage FF is just as competitive as current National SCCA Ford. The top guys all within a few tenths and sometimes within hundredths! My class, Sports 2000 is the same way. We had four guys within four tenths fast lap in an hour long enduro and were running nose to tail and side to side OFTEN! That's FUN!

True, the current market for a top BT-29 with a Vegher or Wenz engine is $75-$95K, but whereas FF engine rebuilds (vintage or current, same spec) are $2500-4500, your Lotus Twin Cam rebuilds occur three times more often at three times the price of a FF!

Whereas the FF engine specs are fixed and highly restricted, the FB specs are relatively open and mean that the powerplant is a great deal more highly stressed. I have a lot of friends/clients here in the East who run Brabham BT-21/29's. Alex Quattlebaum IV, Mark Giroux, Will Thomas (BT-21), Mark Harmer, Dave Handy and Bobby Rahal all run these cars. Awesome racing!

I would say a Formula B car is beyond what I would recommend for someone starting out. Formula Ford, Formula Continental or Sports 2000 are the best bang for the buck for most in dedicated track cars. Even the venerable Radicals suffer from frequent engine maintenance and suffer failures at a far greater rate than the "fixed" engine formulas.

First picture is a pretty old Crossle FF leading a Brabham BT-21 (IIRC) and second is a terrific old Lola T-86/90 Sports 2000 leading a Swift DB-2. That's some good, reasonable racing and the closed wheel cars are welcome at Cosmo Sport and other's track days if you don't want to compete...
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No question it's always easier to buy a "done" (prepared) car than to build one.

 

Typically about $20k for a fully prepped car with data acquisition. Prices have stabilized = little depreciation now.
Parts are cheap, racing is tight due to sealed engines (that last up to 3 years with no significant power loss, try that with a piston engine.) Spec shocks, brakes, etc. Money still wins but its based more on practice time/new tires each race than trick parts. You can practice forever with discard tire sets (free) and hone your mad skilz.
No Ka-Blammos with over-revs.

I looked at everything and have done FVs to Atlantics. Not the prettiest car but the standard FM is the slam dunk winner for us tightwads.

http://formulamazdaforum.yuku.com/

 

Had a Brabham BT-29 back in the day.
Only race car I wish I still had. Rolling art work.

 

Great cars !
Crazy stupid fast and safer than the tube framed cars. Peanuts to maintain vs Atlantics and even Continentals.
There's one for $60k at starmazda forums that needs a new engine.
If money were less of an object this is what I would have.

 

I've had this one about ten years now, did a lot of asking before I bought it and 100% of the responses were exactly what you said. I have never heard anyone say a bad thing about a 29. I love this car, but will probably sell it this year. Its getting the frame powder coated and a frame up restro. between now and April/May.

Everything goes, a full race shop worth......sigh,......... end of an era

 

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Our FF front runners out here are also very closely matched. They have a self policing system that has worked out well, its all about peer presure to keep the cars legal. Lots of good racing, I always recommend FF to beginners.

 

Thank you!

 

i'm not sure if someone mentioned this already but a Westfield XTR would rock! http://www.westfieldxtr.com/

here's a video of it on Top Gear too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhVyJGUn8no i'd like one but since i'm 6'6" i don't think i'd fit in one

 

Martin has a very nice red F3 for about $50k

 

That is exactly what I do. Sometimes I drive to the track sometimes I tow it on a trailer. But a good T1 C5Z06 it is cheaper than a C6Z06 by about 20 grand! My car has only 8000miles 90% street and was newly converted to T1 legal. I am seriously considering selling it for $30k because I really want to go back to racing a ferrari. There is just something fun about racing ferraris I cannot explain even if they are generally slower cars. In my old 348 racecar I had to drive the crap out of it to be a midpacker and maybe I could have become a "few back from the polesitter. With the C5Z06 I can putt around the track 7/10ths drinking a starbucks and be a midpacker. With some skill or some mods I could be on the front row.
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hmmm Dave what's going on in your head?

 

doable. i did 22 events in an amg c32. a buddy did 30+ in an amg c55. can be very fast. not the ulitmate in precision but very robust cars. anything bigger than the w203 chassis cars will be increasingly suboptimal.

i moved on to a gutted prepped 1998 e36 m3 which is a tight and responsive car when properly setup. btw...strange that no one added the m to the track car list. if prepped, they (e36,e46,e90) are worthy at several price points.

my ultimate track car is the radical sr8, lm version even better. 10,500 rpm flat plane crank woo hoo. need engine rebuild after 20 hrs tho- and needs to be sent to the UK for the job.

an exige s with the c-one close ratio gearset would be nice as well and very quick.

 

I'm biased, but I'm a big fan of the Exige. Maybe get a Cup 255 if it is going to be 100% track and no street. I'd also look at an SR3,5,8 if it is 100% track. Lotus also has another 211 in the queue, but I don't know much about it other than its supposed to improve upon the aero of the original 211.

A set of pads on my Exige (2006) last about 20 track days. Rotors about 2x that. I now have giro discs on the car, and figure I should see 2x the previous life. but that's just a guess.

9-12 MPG on the track is nice too. Tires are very cheap.

 

I just did!

 

Agree completely. The M3 is a terrific combo car with even light mods in the E36/E46 guise. The E92 is a monster!

We have a LOT of track events around here. Most common cars are 911 variants, C5 and C6 Corvettes and M3's...

 

Are turbo cars a no-no at the track? Because of overheating...? Or is it just a myth? Or are there many differences on the cars born with turbos and cars with aftermarket setups?

Just curious, loving this knowledgable thread.

 

Spec Miata Turbo. You can beat the hell out of it and not worry about an off. The car can be raced in NASA if you want to try that, and has enough grunt to run with your MR in the straights. Running costs are very low. And finally it is better to drive a "slow" car fast than a fast car slow. I even won a short 4 hour enduro overall in my SM Turbo here in Texas, becasue it had decent pace and stayed out of the pits.

If price is no object and you want a street-based car, the GT3 Cup car is king and has a robust race opportuity from SCCA to PCA to pro. For a full-on race car, there are just too many options out there to pick a "best." All race cars will be high mainteance. They are not designed to go 100,000 miles, they are designed to go fast and be maintained between races. You won't find a race engine that is designed to go more than about 60 hours, and that is an endurance engine.

 

They do quite well--we have many STi's, Evos, etc at our track. But there are issues--my mechanic talks about boost creep (I'm not sure what that is, but it tends to cut power). Most of the folks run some type of octane enhancer. The big issue is the heat they generate--stuff fails more frequently, especially on cars not designed to deal with the heat (exhaust manifolds, downpipes, turbos, wiring in the area, etc.).

When I was doing this whole "track car search thing" a couple of years ago everyone I spoke with (mechanics, race crew chiefs, track day studs, actually racers, etc.) all suggested that life would be simpler and cheaper by staying away from forced induction in general, and turbos specifically.

They can work, and do work well in many racing series. I think the ultimate issue is increased cost and downtime compared with non-forced induction cars.

 

I have always said that!

Okey, thank you very much for your input and views.

 

OK, it's getting loaded for shipping Monday, so I am really excited and had to post pics...
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This is spot on. Formula Fords are cheap and great to learn how to drive with the car's momentum through the corner. Great chasis with a modest engine.

I have a vintage Lola FF that I bought back in the 90's when I was transitioning from karts to open wheel / touring cars. In any case the feeling of driving an under powered open wheel car is very different from a modified and preped street car. They are worlds apart but I'd rather track a FF, much more finesse is required and it feels like a race car. When I was racing Formula 3 Reynard I used my FF to train as the former was too expensive to run that frequently. I've never raced the FF though.

Shifter karts are also great fun but very physically demanding. Tomorrow I'm heading to the track to get some laps.

 

I second the Ultima GTR

Watch this short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AALNcLkNSfM

 

You might find this interesting, especially the info Re; moving the engine. http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153308&mode=linear#post153308

Great looking car, you're in for a lot of fun.

My motto: "If ya can't see yer wheels, ya ain't racin"