Odd Starter problem ???

Assuming the battery re-charged, sounds like a starter gremlin. All you did was drain the battery. Don't be too hard on yourself, this comes with the hobby.

BTW: Leaving the ignition on (not in the start position) does not act on the starter at all.

 

I think the battery is toast. Car batteries don't like to be discharged to zero. Although it appears to be charged, it has no power behind it.

 

+1



*great first post!

 

+2 .................

 

Oh my God, electrical systems - I swear there's something demonic about them. I'd avoid recharging batteries altogether, really. Whenever it goes flat, just buy a new one - it may just work out cheaper for you in the end. For example:

I had an original SmartCar (later models would be designated the "ForTwo") that I had been using as a second car. To save money, I had declared it off-road for some considerable time and it had not been driven for quite a few months - occasionally when I'd remember I'd go out to start it every couple of weeks just to keep the engine ticking over. I had actually forgotten about it for some time and when my girlfriend passed her driving test just before Christmas, I wanted to get it back on the road for her to use.

So we arranged insurance and road tax to start in the New Year, and I started doing a few things to get it going again like checking the oil level, filling with windscreen washer tank, having a look at the tyres etc... however it became pretty obvious that the battery was flat. In order to get a new one fitted, it would have been about £80 to buy a new one and have it fitted by a professional mechanic (including either him coming to me, or towing the car to him on a flat-bed truck), etc... which I thought was too pricey for something that looked so simple.

So I went to Halfords (an auto store, for those of you outside Britain) and bought a battery charger for about £26. Unfortunately, the two ends on the charger with the +ve and -ve signs were pre-fitted the wrong way round. There was a fuse on the charger that was supposed to blow in the event that you hook it up to a battery the wrong way round, but there was too little energy left in the battery to blow a tiny little 3 amp fuse. Therefore, the charger actually charged the battery with reversed polarity.

So, the 23rd of December... In attempting to re-connect the battery in the passenger foot-well, I was electrocuted - burning my fingertips and leaving my arms feeling funny for a few minutes. Foolishly undeterred, I went back inside for some marigold gloves so that I could continue with the battery installation. Battery connected, exactly as the manual showed. Unfortunately, as the polarity was reversed inside the battery, this had the effect of connecting the battery the wrong way round. I heard a bubbling noise, and bent down to the battery to ascertain where the noise was coming from. I then smelled the smoke. The bubbling noise was all the electrical cabling in the car setting alight around me. I ran back into the house and made the following admission...

Me: "I think we need to call someone."

Girlfriend: "Why?"

Me: "The car is a little bit on fire."

So we phoned the fire brigade who attended to help put the car out. The end result was £1800 worth of damage to the car's electrical systems, burning out such items as the alternator, the engine control units, the radio, the electric windows, heated rear windscreen... etc. The maximum liability for Halfords was £26.00. This was the cost of the charger. As the car was not insured at the time (insurance was set to activate only days later), I could not file a claim under and "fire" part of the policy. After some pretty pathetic pleading on my part to the head of the service department at the Mercedes-Benz/Smart dealer, they offered us a few goodwill fixes on a few items like the new alternator and a few cheap replacement parts were sourced from collision-totalled cars. Fortunately, everything I'd damaged was put right again (after about 3 months) and the girlfriend is now thoroughly enjoying her SmartCar.

Since then, I've decided I'm not so much a DIY Amature as a DIY Disaster (usually when electricity is involved) and become absolutely terrified of undertaking any form of electrical DIY work... each of my previous disasters set me back many thousands of pounds each (ok, I guess I should admit there's been more than just this one incident). Bearing that in mind, it would be far safer - and cheaper - for me to leaving it to the hands of a professional from the start, rather than pay extra for them to repair my damage as well as do the job. About the most I'll undertake now is mechanical components, like trying to stop interior trim rattles. I can't possibly set anything on fire trying to secure those... can I?

Still... at least I can say I got my girlfriend a truck-load of firemen for Christmas. ​

As tragic as it was to see a SmartCar suffer a battery-induced grilling, it'd be an unspeakable blasphemy for it to happen to a Ferrari. So, please, don't mess about with chargers and just buy a new battery - ok?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

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Mike in Kuwait

 

Thanks... I think.

Although, we're only in January - there's still a lot of the year left to go!

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Good luck!

 

A bad battery could load down a good one when you boost it.
I don't see any reason why leaving the key on would damage the starter.

 

Your old battery is toast.

 

Based on the description in the original post, this sounds to me more like a bad ignition switch than a bad battery. Before condemning the battery, I would do the jump test on the starter terminals to see if the engine will crank over by bypassing the key switch (if you do this, make SURE the shifter is in Neutral!!).

 

Let's step through it:

1. You charged battery, it didn't start.
2. You tried jumping, it didn't start.
3. Did you try push starting? You might try to see if it runs without using the starter.
4. If it starts by pushing, then you need to do a load test on the battery.
5. If it passes the load test on the battery, then you have a bad starter.

My guess, based on steps one and two, you have a bad starter or bad solenoid....

I think my starter on the 355 was about $700 to have rebuilt, including labor. It was a while back and I'd have to pull the paper work.

Good luck!

 

Good post Pablo! However, I think your rebuild quote is a little high! A brand new Ferrari stater for an F355 is about $790.00 from Ricambi. I had my 308/328 starters rebuilt for about $80.00 (assuming the starter gear is OK). Just don't tell them it's for a Ferrari. LOL

 

There is no starter relay as the car came from the factory. Sometimes a relay is installed by an owner, or at a shop (it's an approved fix), to increase the voltage to the starter solenoid when the key is turned. Leaving the key on for an extended period should have no effect at all on the starter or the solenoid, but it COULD cause a problem in the ignition switch. It seems to be pretty common.

 

Thanks Andy,

You made my day............so funny and still tragic of course.............

I laughed and cried at the same time..................

Sorry to hear there are more as silly as I am when it comes to electricity.

All the best,

//B//

 

Thats what I did and I found nearly a 1 volt improvement at the starter.

 

Probably a sulfated battery. Lead sulfate builds on the plates during extended periods of discharge. Lead sulfate is a poor to non-existent conducter and will inhibit large current flow. Unless the test was performed with something that can pull about 300 amps (Snap-On VAT40) you won't be able to test it properly. Trickle chargers do not produce enough AC ripple to effectively break up the said dielectric. There is some circuitry that can be made up to essentially pulse deplate it but I would still get a new battery and try it. I'm on my third battery and have gotten in the habit of disconecting it if it's not going to be driven for more than two days. Hope it's just a battery as I can't think of anything that would otherwise burn-out. Obviously make sure the terminals at the battery are clean and tight. GL.

 

I can only give my opinion, based on my own personal experience and a few similar reports here on FChat.

When you hear a "click" coming from the back end when you turn the key to the start position, then you know that power is reaching the solenoid/starter, but there isn't enough voltage to actually turn it over. I made careful measurements on mine before I installed a backup starter button, and eventually installed a relay system (I did a thread on this, it will be in the archives).

On mine, I knew that I had a good, strong battery, and all of the connections were clean and tight. I had also installed a new ground cable between the battery and the frame, and from the frame to the transmission housing. The positive battery cable runs directly to the main terminal on the starter motor, so you should have full voltage there at all times. I had full battery voltage going into the ignition switch, but the feed wire running from the switch to the starter solenoid showed less than 12 volts (I don't remember the exact numbers at the moment). Therefore there was an obvious voltage drop inside the switch itself, and the starter simply won't crank over on less than full voltage.

If your starter won't turn over on the key, try this: PUT THE SHIFTER INTO NEUTRAL (so you don't run over yourself), then just jump between the two terminals on the starter, so that you are feeding full power from the large terminal to the small terminal. Chances are it will crank over just fine. If the key is in the "run" position, the engine will start. If the key is in the "off" position, the engine will crank over but won't fire.

There is no relay, and no fuse, in the starter circuit, unless they have been added by the owner.

It's very remotely possible that it's the solenoid, but I think you'll find that solenoid works fine once it receives enough voltage through the signal wire.

http://74.86.28.138/~ferrari/forum/showthread.php?t=202861