The one thing you learned/did that made you faster? | FerrariChat

The one thing you learned/did that made you faster?

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by fatbillybob, Jan 31, 2009.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,574
    socal
    How about a thread on a single thing learned or done that made you faster on track?

    I'll start. Once I was a passenger in my own race car with a real pro race driver who was on TV and got paid for racing on a track I know well. It set an upper limit on what my car could do and what I had to work on to get there. The critical things were my car and him a pro and on my home track.
     
  2. EnzymaticRacer

    EnzymaticRacer F1 Veteran

    Feb 27, 2005
    5,367
    Started driving a car with a 6-point harness and a head/neck restraint device...
     
  3. Dipsomaniac

    Dipsomaniac F1 Veteran

    Mar 23, 2006
    5,956
    Doha/Sydney
    Full Name:
    Derek K
    BRAKE! it sounds strange, but learning when & where to brake made the biggest difference to doing a quick lap for me.
     
  4. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
    6,057
    NoVA
    Full Name:
    Matt B
    Had the same opp as FBB in a Spec Miata. Silly how much faster the Pros can go than I could. It mentally allowed me to understand what the car was capable of doing.

    Two Specifics I learned from the Pros

    1) Steering inputs by the pros were small and made often - My inputs were fewer and more drastic. Hard to describe but they were ballroom dancing with the car while I was wrestling with the car.

    2) Constantly trying to look further ahead on the track. The more accustomed I was to racing speeds the easier this became through the years, but this assists in "slowing everything down" mentally which makes things a he$$ of a lot more fun and easier to get into a rhythm on track.

    My 2c
    MB
     
  5. MordaloMVD

    MordaloMVD F1 Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    4,222
    WA
    Full Name:
    Michael von Ditter
    Both excellent points. Learned this about 35 years ago and it has paid dividends ever since. And not only on the track. My rule of thumb is that if you aren't driving at least 1/4 mile ahead of your car (when and where ever) you are behind in available time to react and looking for trouble. Also it is helpful, especially on the open roads, to always go a little bit faster than the traffic around you as you will never stay in someones blind spot and you are usually in control if applying the first part. :):)
     
  6. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,352
    Cheshire
    Some of my top tips (sorry - more than 1, but it's impossible to narrow down!):-

    0. Get some tuition - some hours with a pro are worth a thousand track days
    1. Learn the correct racing line - most of us get this bit wrong...
    2. When on the gas - be ON THE GAS 100% - it's surprising how often people accelerate at less than 100% or feather when not needed
    3. Find the correct braking points - again, most of us brake too gently too early
    4. Learn to get comfortable with the car sliding around beneath you - the only way to do this is practice practice practice
     
  7. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,885
    #7 CornersWell, Feb 1, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
    Less and earlier braking. Carry more speed into the entry, and you'll be faster on the exit. Look at MS' data feeds. It was one of his secrets.

    Slow is fast. The smoother you are, the faster you'll go. Fast hands result in slower times.

    When in doubt, use a higher gear. You'll be surprised.

    Less is more. Again, for higher cornering speeds (and higher speeds, in general), try and slow things down a bit and do less in the car. Keep adjustments to a minimum, and make them slowly. Less hard braking, one less downshift and smooth turn ins make cornering less "busy".

    CW
     
  8. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    Data acquisition!

    More specifically, interpreting that data. The sub $1k systems (& S/W) now available cost ten's of 000's until recently.

    One of my "targets" for this year is to "capture" a few laps with a "pro" jockey which I can then overlay on my data to *see* where I'm losing time. My system already has a "theoretical best lap" capability, which is nice, but comparing my "best" with a good reference will, I hope, be a quantum leap forward.

    [BTW, I have a couple of (new, unused) Traqmate completes available for a good price if anyone's interested - PM me]

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  9. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Paying attention to where and how I let OFF the brakes.

    Everyone focuses on fixing a point to begin braking. Most people modulate their braking to make the point at which they come off the brake MATCH or MEET the point they feel comfortable picking back up on the throttle.

    Since almost every car brakes better than most people think it will and nearly every driver I have ever worked with (6500-plus over the last twenty years) brakes either too LONG or travels too much distance between the end of braking to the beginning of acceleration (and I'm not talking about "matting it," hehe) or BOTH, why not just focus on the most important transition spot and plot every other control input from that?

    It has been said here and elsewhere that the difference between good and great drivers is the amount of time and distance at vMin (usually corner entry), this is one tool to help fix that.

    Very good thread! Looking ahead (slowing the eyes=slowing the hands), using the car's capabilities to best effect (braking, generating slip angles that can be sustained) and maintaing momentum (maybe going down one less gear, releasing brakes at a higher entry speed) are all GREAT tips!
     
  10. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    Somebody else is a Jackie Stewart fan! Probably one of the best hints I have ever read also. I think it is written in in "Principles of Performance Driving", where Jackie says "It is more important how you let off the brakes than how you apply them"


    Jay
     
  11. Bleu Omdurman

    Bleu Omdurman Karting

    Dec 3, 2006
    151
    Bellevue, WA
    Full Name:
    Trevor
    I spent about 2 hours on a skid pad with a factory driver (Lotus). He coached me and coached me until I could hold the slide (oversteer) for two full revolutions on the pad. I am now much more aware of the car.

    Sounds funny/common sense but...


     
  12. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    16,857
    ny
    i found this advice to be true

    most drivers go too fast in the slow corners and too slow in the fast ones
     
  13. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2004
    6,774
    Indy
    Full Name:
    Bill S.
    Envisioning a string wrapped around the steering column that is connected to the gas pedal. Unwinding the column let's you depress the throttle, and wind the string back up to lift. Keep the string tight but don't break it.

    This is a good smoothness excercise you can do everyday too as you commute to work.
     
  14. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    Getting on the gas as early as possible, especially on that all important turn leading to the straight; 100% throttle at or before the apex, not after it.
     
  15. sbarton

    sbarton Rookie

    Jan 31, 2009
    3
    #15 sbarton, Feb 2, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
    I made my biggest improvement when I bought a data logger and when looking for ways to use it to improve my skills, I re-read about the friction circle and it finally just clicked. I tried using the friction circle to as a way to judge how good I was at using the most traction at all times. Basically I had to work on making my friction circle go from an triangle shape to a half circle shape (see image link below).
    I thought real hard about it and realized I needed to work on my braking as not just a way of slowing the car down, but to also to keep the weight transferred to the front as I turn in. I worked on releasing the brakes as I turned in. The more I turned in the more I released the brakes.
    At this point in my career I was basically trail braking to extend the braking zone into the turn and just keeping the weight on the front tires. A few events ago I started working on trail braking as a way to rotate the car. Basically using the brakes to induce a small oversteer event to get the car to rotate where you want it to very quickly without reducing much speed. Turn 6 at NJMP Thunderbolt Raceway is a good place for this (Turn 1 at Mid Ohio as well). It is amazing how much speed you can maintain doing it this way. Of course you have to get it just right, or it's easy to oversteer too much. Not something to try unless you are very comfortable sliding the car around.

    [​IMG]

    -Scott
     
  16. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Same answer--my first school used telemetry, and you reviewed it immediately after coming off the track. It translates what you're doing on the track into tangible data.
     
  17. fasaloli

    fasaloli Rookie

    Nov 16, 2007
    12
    greetings all, i think one of the most important things in track days is knowing the track, and the corners and which corner will effect the other, u might come into a corner fast and find out that ur too fast for the one after and then u loose time trying to get the right speed and the right angel.
    the other thing is heal and toe! it makes a lot of difference. it keeps the engine in the best rpm for the fast exit.

    always come in slow and go out fast! <they taught me that the hard way!>

    make sure that ur foot is planted and keep making sure!
     
  18. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 17, 2003
    5,080
    Nashville and Palm b
    Full Name:
    robert s biscan
    Be willing to listen to more experienced drivers on your mistakes. You don't know it all and keep an open mind. Go watch other fast drivers in areas on the track you are lacking. Listen to how they accelerate on that section of track.
     
  19. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,465
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    The most successful pros do that. Even F1 drivers do a LOT of reconnaissance!

    Data IS the REAL deal. Doesn't matter if it's a Traqmate or a MoTeC ADL 3, it's incredibly useful and very important.

    It's the one thing that has lifted the most people I work with OFF of the plateau that they invariably reach and move them UP TO the next level. For many drivers, this happens several times throughout their amateur and professional careers, but you have to know where to start.
     
  20. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Relax, breath steadily.

    Soft grip on the wheel.

    Overall smoothness, especially transitions, brake to power, shifting or steering.

    Told those back in the 60s by an accomplished race/rally driver Graham Warner.
     
  21. early93viper

    early93viper Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2006
    257
    Olathe, KS
    Full Name:
    Dan
    This is what best helped me:

    When you get back from the track (Or better yet just after a session) break down every corner and every straight on paper. Make notes where you need improvement. Look at your Line, what gear your in how you execute the shift (how you heel toe, etc.), Braking, entry, Mid-corner, exit, etc. Every Part of the turn you need to break down and see where improvement needs to be made. Keep it in a journal and refer back to it before and after every track day.
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,400
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Dont enter a corner in which theoretically seems quickest in 2nd/7K RPM when you have to shift at 8K. enter it in 3rd and you have a lot more to play with but it makes the car less nervous.

    Exit of the corner is by far the most important bit. Focus on that. always think ahead.
     
  23. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 12, 2005
    23,767
    Sin City
    Full Name:
    Deplorie McDeplorableface
    Immediately upon my exiting the car, it went considerably faster...haha.

    Seriously, make smooth steering inputs rather than quick and violent inputs really lowers your time (as many have mentioned). Also, late breaking like a pro doesn't work, unless you're a pro.

    Mark
     
  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,400
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Well, what most people do is they are late on the brakes, but then when they can stop braking the fully release in one go. You have to 'feather' it when letting off the brakes. If you're putting this to practise just brake a tad earlier.
     
  25. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,179
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Keith Verges
    On looking ahead, it actually makes driving on the street in heavy traffic AGONY. I try to look well ahead for any issues that might come up and the swerving, tailgating, brake-riding jackasses right in front of me become a real danger, as I have to watch them as much as the road ahead. It has gotten so bad that I simply avoid heavy traffic like the plague, and will not drive during rush hour and wonder how anyone does.
     

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