Does it make sense to track your F car.

First, where does it say in your service history that it's been tracked or taken regularly to it's rev limit?

Secondly, why buy such a car in the first place if you don't take the opportunity to get the best out of it.

Thirdly, and I don't mean to unfairly cast track personnel in an unfavourable light, but why listen to them in the first place? They are either inexperienced in the ways of the world or ineffectual individuals in my experience.

 

Why not?

It's your car, drive it like you want.

 

Interesting. Insurance is one thing, but before screaming "liability" and running away, I'd like to know more. Got the cites to any published cases? What actually happened can be very different from what gets passed around online. Don't I know it--a headline about one of my cases says "Bank Mistake Allegedly Cost Customer $3 Million Annual Lost Profits." Sounds like the bank was very bad, sounds like I was very good at representing the victim, but a more accurate headline would have been "Court Dismisses Lawsuit Against Bank, Rules No Actual Damages Occurred" because that's what actually happened, dangit.

In my part-time job, administrators make a lot of (bad) decisions because of "liability" without asking the (temporarily) free lawyer on duty about what really generates liability. I'd sure hate to see people pass up track days because of "liability" that doesn't exist.

 

It's all about money. If you enjoy it enough and can afford the tires, the brakes, the wear & tear and, above all, the potential total loss of your vehicle, it makes sense (and for some it does). If not, an inexpensive/less expensive car or a race rental program is the way to go. After all, just because it's not a Ferrari doesn't mean it isn't a great day at the track!

Personally, I find saving my car for the street and using a rental is the way to go. It's less expensive for my limited use, is safer, more reliable and protects me from some of the complicated liability issues (that I've been admittedly fuzzy on).

If you're like me (of conservative mindset and means), do a proper racing training program and rent. If you want to race, SCCA Spec Miatas can be hired by the day affordably and are hugely fun.

 

When your car is illegal in 50 states at redline in third gear (and the car has six gears) you simply have to take it to a track to drive it. You do not need to race, you do not need to push your limits, you might find yourself on someone's tail for a while and when he puts some distance you might push further and have fun.

Otherwise you will never get anything out of your car beyond daily driving unless you are willing to risk serious legal sanction and putting the public at large at unjustified risk.

I am sure one can get track insurance. It would be worth it to be able to wind out to 7500 RPM in each gear once, legally without putting the unsuspecting at risk. Face it, as for street legal driving the F-car is a bust. Street illegal driving is stupid. Track it.

 

Track days are the highlight of my year... the only time my car can be driven at more than about 50% of its potential. I don't drive to win, just to enjoy the feeling, and I'm lucky that I seem to be able to resist the Red Mist sufficiently to keep within my abilities. I took my car to its first track day about a week after I got it and the experience gave me a lot of confidence with the car as I was able to get a feel for how it reacts at speed etc; experience I could never get safely on the road. I also, about once a year, do a skidpan driver training day, and I learn something new everytime which I am sure also helps with daily driving. I figure something can break on the car on the highway just as likely as on the track and there are a lot fewer idiots on the track than there are on the highway. 'Tracking' and 'competition' are 2 different things.

 

That's the part that bothers me. Even on the street, you see the guys who just *have* to "race" a Ferrari. Even one that isn't racing.

I like to gently explore the car's limits. But after the rallye days, a closed course seems like rush hour.
Now if I could find a track where they send you out with two minute separation, ...

 

Definately track it, but always stay within your and the cars limits. Don't exceed 8/10ths.

 

I have tracked my car for around 4 years now with well over 20 track days that I have attended. I am an instructor at my local Touring Club track days. I track my Viper which is a big investment........at least to me.

About tracking your Ferrari:
The first thing I would say to anyone tracking a Ferrari is your going to have a target on your back. I mean that's bragging rights there. Hell I would do my damdist to pass a Ferrari. It shouldn't be a surprise that people want to pass your Ferrari when you get to the track.

About two car accidents:
I have never seen anyone wreck where it wasn't there own fault. Two car accidents are incredibly rare when tracking your car. Not saying they don't happen but INCREADIBLY rare.

About minimizing your risks:
Know the rules of your DE event or track day. Passing by point bys only, Strict rules for novices, few cars on the track at one time, etc. all these are things I would look for in the rules. If you don't feel comfortable with any of them keep off the track.

Know your track! Run off is very important the more the better. There are some tracks I would never track my car on just do to how little runoff they have. Sliding thru the grass is better than hitting a wall.

Know if your specific car model has oiling issues. When going around a track with high sustained Gs some cars have oiling issues. Oil pick up is extremely important to your cars engine.

Risk is definitely involved when deciding to track your car. Unless you love it and I mean absolutely love it; tracking is not worth the risk. The only problem is I do love it. Consider your self lucky if you don't.

 

I have handled probably more of these cases than just about any other attorney that I am aware of. I am the only one to have collected anything from SCRAMP at Laguna Seca (Reg Pridmore), and I've handled both defense and plaintiff's cases. I'm telling you that at least in California, these cases from a Plaintiff's standpoint don't have much value. The Jewett case and its progeny has taken just about all of the prospect of recovery away from someone who makes a claim. An example: I'm currently handling a case at Sears Point where the 430 Challenge car went off the track in turn one (I've got the defense). I don't know the conclusion, but I suspect that it will end up in a defense verdict if the case gets to trial. I do know that the law of "assumption of risk" coupled with a decent release and indemnity agreement makes it very, very difficult to prevail. Just remember bringing suit isn't the same as winning it, and most of those releases have an indemnity and attorney's fees provision, so if you've got any assets, you'd better be very, very careful about if and when you start something like that.

Art

 

Art, I appreciate your input... and its helpful to know that.

So let me ask you a hypothetical. Newbie is on the track driving a dodge neon, and drives in an unexpected fashion. IE. Makes a turn way off line, slams on the brakes because he thinks he is going to fast, misses a warning flag and runs into a stopped car, whatever...

Due to this, he whacks into a 360, drives them off line and the other driver gets injured...

Are you saying that the neon driver would likely (or, almost certainly) prevail? I am just trying to wrap my head around that...

Or, similar scenario. But neon sideswipes the 360, causing $30k in damage. 360 driver will certainly be pissed, and threaten to sue. The neon driver has nothing to fear here? Can't the 360 driver still claim that the neon guy did something "unexpected" creating liability? Wasn't there some case years ago where a stock car driver started doing burnouts after winning a race, and another driver who was still racing plowed into him... I thought this resulted in a lawsuit too...

Seems to me a lawsuit is very plausible. And who wins would come down the the quality of your legal representation. If the neon driver hires a low-rate local attorney, I suspect some liability can be thrown his way by a higher grade attorney...

Or, is this not the issue?

Thanks for the input...

 

For those who want to test themselves and their cars, an alternative is to participate in an organized Slalom / Autocross / Solo event. Anyone can go fast in a straight line and I suspect most Fcar owners are not interested in that anyway (otherwise, there would be a lot of Ferraris at the drag strips). The above mentions events are all about handling. Acceleration, braking, turning, learning the course - all in more controlled environment. It's all about driving skill. At worst, the most damage you will do is flat spot your tires.

Try it, you'll like it.

 

when there are others around perhaps. But I have a freind who takes his Porsche out on EARLY sunday mornings when the roads are a virtual ghost town.

Probably safer than riding at a track with inexperienced and sometimes hostile drivers.

 

First I want to comment that a track day is definitely not a "racing environment". Second, you are not covered insurance wise.

Now, if you can get over the whole Ferrari thing and realize it's just a car, and then go into it with the attitude that you can write the car off ... and therefore have no qualms about going 10/10ths, at least no reservations related to the car itself (ie, go just as hard as if it were a miata), then I say go for it. You also have to realize, you may write the car off because of the actions of others, through absolutely no fault of your own. If you can't accept that, you shouldn't track it.

In my case, with an F430, it was a mistake to track the car because it was only then I learned that it was a slow heavy pig of a car. Its street manners are impeccable but it didn't translate to the track. The experience has worn the shine off the car.

 

After two years of ownership, I have fallen into mostly driving on Saturday and Sunday morning and it is fun. In NJ every other hour of the week is puttering behind someone else. Still, I would never round any corner the way I did at Lime Rock. Even at 5 Am on a Sunday morning, I could round a bend and there could be a young girl bicycling right in the center of my line at about 2 MPH. She would be right and I would be wrong. Pushing the car you do not have a lot of options once you are in a corner.

There may be hostile drivers at the track, but we all sign releases and know what we are getting. People on public roads deserve not getting what they have not signed onto.

 

The short answer is it doesn't make sense.

The caveat is that it's a lot of fun and you will never learn how good and capable the car is on the street.

I track my 430 once in a while and a Celica race car the rest. Obviously, I am far more willing to push the Celica. The cost of cutting weeds with it is very low and it has the safety equipment required for racing. For the 430, I choose the track I run on carefully and check carefully for runoff areas and hazards. I also choose the group I run with carefully. I've never run into problems with people trying to pass me because it's an Fcar. I think for some people there might be more of a problem with the Fcar drivers getting passed by lesser marques and pusing beyond their abilities to keep from being passed.

Dave

 

Thanks a million! Great to get the scoop from Those Who Know What They're Talking About instead of speculation in a vacuum.

 

You got it - if it is your car do what you want - I have tracked all three of my Ferraris and loved it - too slow, too expensive - BS! When I am screaming into a turn with my CS, it is best rush since I used to jump out of perfectly good airplanes in the service. I am pumped up for days after - I don't know where else you can get as good of a legal high - especially whaen you are an old F.... like me
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I love how you've got a cigarette in your mouth while standing right next to a no smoking sign lol.

 

Karting is the way to go ... I'm going to run in a series this year that mostly caters to adults. They're even starting a class taylor fit for me ... S4M -Stock Honda 125 Shifter with a minimum combined weight of 440 lbs. They are calling it 440 Magnum ... driver must be at least 32 y/o and weigh a minimum of 220 lbs with safety gear

Check it out : http://www.superkartsusa.com/pkc-socal

Fun Stuff !!!

G

 

I might be a little irreverent

 

The 750 will do.......the 1000 is a bit hairy. I am going thru the same mental gyrations with my Desmosedici...should I take my $75K motorcycle to the track and push it or just stick to my race bikes? I am ordering the cheaper racing bodywork and will take it to the track......really, that is why I bought it. The sound, the handling, the sound, the looks of it, and, did I mention the sound? That V4 coming off an apex full chat with the front wheel lofting at 90MPH? Pricey, but damn near priceless. I'll ride at 80% of my pace and have a ball, and hope I don't turn it into one!

 

Let me pose a question if I may, I recently just joined the site and posted about my possible foray into F-Cardom. I have been doing DE's/Auto-x's/Club Races ect almost since I have had my driver's license with numerous Porsches/Mazdas/ect. I have been doing some research and it looks like a 308/328 would be the best model for me for starters. Now say if I wanted an 3X8 that would be used primarily on the track, I am not talking about campaigning it though just DE's and Auto-X's, along with the Sunday drive, is it possible to find a car in good running order that is not a garage queen? If so where would I look for such a car (I am in the US)? What about the possibility of finding one that has already been set up for track use? I just don't like the idea the of "roughing up" a "concourse" car but in searching the internet I have yet to see a real "driver" as opposed to a "show" car. I hope this is not too blastphemous and I didn't use too many quotation marks for you guys.

 

Heading out to the track isn't for everyone. However, I take a degree of solace knowing that I can point people by, go my own speed, and stay away from novices and "Red Mist" drivers. I can (and so can anyone) choose who I am on the track with. If I don't like the group I am with, I can tell the organizer and/or go home.

With that said, if you have an Fcar and it is in good shape and you are responsible, take that thing out tothe track, find a great instructor, and enjoy the car within your limits. With a little prudence you can have a real blast and be safer on the track than you are on the street.

There are certainly some groups that you should not run with in your area. If you don't know who those are, connect with some buddies (or those here) and find out who runs a tight ship kind of track day in your area. There are some specatular groups out there that have no problem kicking someone of the track that is a danger to others.

 

Define "slow"? Comparing any car to a bike is comparing apples to oranges...and besides..I'll take "expensive to fix" to "living to see another day" any day of the week.

Guys...all I can say is go to a track and listen to most cars buzz around the track...then pull your F out on the track and listen to it whine...F'ing outstanding sound and feeling. Sure...other cars may be less expensive to fix or allow you a greater sense of comfort re: insurance coverage but hey...that's not why most of us indulge in the car thing. It's a blast taking an F car on the track...period. Go for it!