So now a Technical question. Im going for one of the units, but how difficult is it going to be to install it? I realize its engine out, then remove the gear box from the engine. Then what? Does the carrier come out the bottom, sides, or back end? My Workshop manual shows a little about the axle/diff, but nothing regarding changing out the carrier. New carrier bearings would be in order, and I know they have a pre-load setting, and that the gear backlash would need adjusting. Paul, I assume youll be doing the installation on your car? If so, can I assume youll be posting lots of pictures of the process. So what say you guys of Great knowledge. Is this something a handy DIY guy can tackle, or better left to the shop? John
You dont have to seperate the engine from the gearbox but you sure want the assembly out to do it. Yes you would have to set your backlash and preload. New bearings are inexpensive and readily available. Its not an easy 10min job once its out. Setup could prove to be time consuming or straightforward if you have a horseshoe stuck you know where. Yes ill be installing one in my car as well as a friends car. Ill be installing a couple tomorrow in a TR gearbox to test fit them and taking pics as well. Ill also be using a new crown and pinion and an OEM one for some other tests. Thanks John, you're on the list. P.
This morning I picked up two of the carriers then headed to work to do a trial fit. I have to say the carriers are incredible, im not tooting my own horn here because I didnt make them. I hired a shop and I couldnt have picked a better place to have them done. You know who you are, fantastic work! The fit and finish on them is unequalled, its a shame to put it in the gearbox and never see it again, its too good! The OEM carrier internals went right in, fit perfectly and the crown gear fit just like it did on the OEM carrier. I swapped parts back and forth, new crown gear, old crown gear, installed the bearings to check the interference fit. The end cap fits perfectly, did I mention they're perfect? Im a real picky PITA when it comes to stuff like this and a real stickler for details, I cant find fault. Ok ill stop the sappy talk now. To install the carrier I used a 90 TR gearbox for the demo. With the engine out, remove the rear mount plate and both side carrier covers. Once you have 3 access holes you must hold your tongue in the right position to get the carrier out through the rear opening. Take the crown gear bolts out, take out the end cap bolts and out come the internals. Simply swap the internals to the other carrier, you may want to put moly grease on the clutches prior to re-installing them in the new carrier. Torque the end cap to spec. Press new bearings on, change the cups in the carriers supports and re-install the crown gear on the new carrier. Place the carrier assy back inside the gearbox then install the right side cover, then the left. Torque bolts to spec reusing the original shims and check backlash with a dial indicator. Adjust accordingly if your backlash is out of spec. I dont have the spec handy but it will have an acceptable range in the WSM. The crown gear in the pic is toast so ignore it. Im also going to clean up the gearbox later and then assemble it properly. I was pressed for time otherwise it would look cleaner for the pics. Again I couldnt be happier with the carrier quality, simply fantastic. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
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Paul, great job and thanks so much for pouring yourself into these projects. You are making 512 ownership a more relaxing proposition! Someone asked about the first guinea pig. I believe its to be the bad azzz boxster currently under my "guidance" and in Brian Cralls skilled hands! Timing was just about perfect as we are now finally around the bend and beginning reassembly to bring her back to life. The carrier will hopefully be in place by early next week.
You're welcome John, and thanks to Brian for showing interest as well. It was more labour intensive than originally thought, took longer than I wanted but they turned out great! Ive boxed them, ill take them tomorrow morning to UPS to see about insurance etc and get them going. The bolts for the caps will be packed in the box as well. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good day Paul, Fantastic job and Pics! Kudos to you and everyone else involved! I must say that this project (and a few others) has raised some questions in my mind about Ferrari-of-now and their parts programme... What I find interesting is that a small group of mechanical specialists are able to reproduce (and improve/rectify) known-issue Ferrari parts that Ferrari-of-now cannot or will not... all for a reasonable price given the low replacement part production numbers. Don't get me wrong, I love Ferraris but I am getting a serious dislike with the Ferrari-of-now given these types of situations. What adds to this fervor is that Ferrari-of-now has a tremendous about of technical infastructure, $$$, etc and yet are dis-inclined to address issues like these... At any rate, if it weren't for Paul and a number of other companies, we would be somewhat hooped (insert explicative here) if we relied upon Ferrari-of-now. Many, many thanks again to all that are/were involved! Cheers, Sam
Good day Paul, I have one comment about Shipping... Go with UPS as you mentioned and absolutely do not use Fed Ex Ground. Sadly Fed Ex Ground (operates as a separate company than Fed Ex) has a very twisted insurance department that will fight you for months if something goes awry with the shipment (if they lose your shipment they do not want to pay the claim). In my experience, UPS has been excellent to deal with both good and bad shipments. Also, once you have packaged up the items take a few pics of the crate and the packing, as this will be helpful if something goes awry. Cheers, Sam
Paul, I am with Sam on this. Have found UPS to be much better, not great, at getting items where they need to be safely. Good idea about the pics going out as well. Again, kudos to the shop, nice pieces for sure. John
Nice job, Paul! What Sam said made me think. Whether or not you buy one of these carriers, or one of Sam's fuse blocks, or any of the other "alternative" (read non Ferrari made or licensed) parts, this type of effort yields dividends to all Boxer/Ferrari owners. I've read many interesting questions from experienced owners. This valuable forum seems to vet most of the potential and real issues before the first part is used. Pretty cool. In this case, big thanks to Paul for your efforts and fielding questions! Does the machinist/fabricator have a spec sheet detailing materials and methods that could be posted? It would be great to see that side by side with the factory specs, if for posterity only. I don't know if that is proprietary. W
Thanks William, I need to thank Brent for loaning me the carrier for 2 months so this could happen. Im not sure where I would have found another carrier to use other than my own which is still in the car! I need to thank Starboy444 from this site for handling the choice of material, the processes, the reverse-engineering and manufacturing etc... his shop is top notch as is he. I have a PDF sheet on the material used for my carriers which I can post no problem. We dont have exact factory specs nor could we bore a hole in the OEM one to take samples - brent wouldnt like that. There were 4 of us pouring over the OEM carrier coming up with how they made it and why. Turns out it was done in the easiest least expensive way possible and thats why they sometimes break, the ferrari passion wasnt on their mind when they made this part. What they used for an OEM one is assumed to be 4140 or something along those lines only because it makes sense price-wise and it was good enough......provided they didnt weld the end on it. My new carriers are made from a material called NIMAX which was mentioned earlier somewhere in the thread I think and then it was case-hardened. The process and blueprints are of course for my eyes only! Alot of effort went into these carriers as you and the others will find as soon as you open the little crates I made. These carriers are aircraft quality, they're too good but thats the way they should have been considering the brand of car they go in and the premium paid for such a car! Im super anal as is starboy444 so the end result is something I couldnt be happier with. Thanks to those who put their trust in me and purchased the carriers! P.
Paul, I will be doing my engine out service starting this summer on my 82 BBi. It would seem to be senseless not to perform the upgrade. Please put me on your list, as I would like to purchase one too.
Nice job Newman and others involved. I am a bit disappointed in Ferrari engineering in general. Carriers, brake size, belt replacements, on and on. Porsche has a much better engineering reputation IMO. As long as there is more demand than supply Ferrari will continue to do the minimum possible to sell cars. What a shame.
I think things need to be kept in perspective Ferrari was only making maybe 20BBs a month all hand made, they could have easily tripled the price if every possible failure item was race car grade to last 24hrs WFO at LeMans, you rarely hear about diffs breaking in BBs this from Bob Norwood himself who's modded many including the twin turbo BBi, the TR was much heavier and more torque plus stickier tires the problem showed up there then Ferrari fixed it with the 512M.
Good day, This may be true, however, it is how the company chooses to address this (mis) design issues now that people are upset about... or at least me for one. Perhaps initially they did not know better and did what they did. Thanks to the passage of time, a number of critical and costly issues have come to light and Ferrari-of-now either has no interest or chooses to charge ridiculous sums of money to sort out their "design flaw(s)". This is what irks me and, I suspect, others. Cheers, Sam
Well, Paul's baby showed up at my office today. After an extensive background check and exhaustive interview, Paul deemed me worthy to have a carrier from his first litter. I know he and his wife are expecting, but I might not be exaggerating if I told you that he has been doing some serious nesting as it relates to this carrier project! I have to say I was a bit disappointed that the custom delivery box that he made to ship the carrier in wasn't even sanded. However, he was thoughtful to use stainless steel screws, I suppose just in case the delivery was delayed due to inclement weather or shipwreck. So it had that going for it. Notice the square drive heads, making me venture out into the cold garage to get into my tool box on this wintry SoCal evening, lol! And thanks for circling the right screws to open the box, I might not have thought on my own to unscrew the box to take it apart, maybe instead just use a crowbar or jackhammer. Paul might be just a tad protective over his babies, crazy hoser! In all seriousness, you know that if Paul spent this much time packaging the carrier to be delivered unmolested, it is clear what effort went into making it. The pictures don't lie, it is beautiful work. The only thing he didn't do was deliver it in person and install the thing! My sincere thanks to Paul! Not only for being a good sport with the ribbing, but especially for the great expertise and care with which he completed this terrific project. Cheers to a deservedly proud Papa and my neighbor to the North! William Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
WOW! Truly a nice piece of work. Georgeous! The folks getting these will be proud to put them in their cars.
We still don't understand why you guys down there still insist on using the "commom" or "flat head" and "philips" screws. The Robertson or square head screws are clearly superior in every way. There's nothing like a flat head slipping and scratching a surface then going through your skin or a philips head skipping and stripping....errrrrrrr BTW just how cold is it down there? It's minus 10c (12 f's) up here and snowing.... more errrrrr's
You can buy the Robertson head (sq. head ) screws at Home Depot....philips is just more common....just used to them from the Ferrari and Lamborghini as well. 12F? Today it was 80F. I cleaned the pollen off the outside dinner table and scrubbed the pool down. Oh....I really need to mow the lawn and trim a couple of the palm trees this weekend. Shamile Freeze....Miami Vice !
Robertson screws were invented in Canada. Here's why they are'nt so prevalent... Robertson had licensed the screw in England, but the party with which he was dealing intentionally drove the company into bankruptcy and purchased the rights from the trustee, thus circumventing Robertson. He spent a small fortune buying back the rights. After that, he refused to ever allow anyone to make the screws under license. When Henry Ford tried out the Robertson screws he found they saved considerable time in the production of cars but when Robertson refused to license the screws to Ford, he realized that the supply of screws would not be guaranteed and stopped using them.
