Tire Age Question

You're getting a great deal on good tires. I just bought RE050 Pole position for $750 mounted for all four. So for a better than 50% discount so what if you need to change them again in 4 years.

 

They're probably OK. Tirerack does a good job of maintaining an appropriate environment for their inventory (climate controlled). In a good environment (little/no UV, 60-70 degrees, on the shelf) the tires won't degrade quickly. You can always ask for $50 off too because of the age......

 

I was playing with the idea of changing some tires too - mine are 7.5 years old - thread is great still, just wondering about the age of them at this point for safety reasons as well.

Are tires that are 7.5 - 8 years old pretty much a big no, no? Or is it - how lucky you are feeling scenario?

Funny thing is, as with most "regular" people - I never even thought about tire's useful age before getting the F-car, ha ha ... go figure. Things a just a little bit different now, ha.

 

I wouldn't give it a second thought.

 

300$ sounds like a great deal. If the tires have been stored accordingly 2 and a half year should do little to no damage to them. Even if you change the tires again in 3 years 300$ sound great.

Regarding the age of tires. I also did not think too much about it (just checked the ressure, wear and the "optical" condition regulary) until summer 2007. On my Mercedes 300SL (R129) I had 7 year old Goodyear Eagle F1. So i was cruising along the german highway around 140mph. All of a sudden there was a strange noise coming from the right backside of the car. Seconds later the backside of the car was pulling away. I had to countersteer 4 or 5 times to stop the skidding and manged to stop at the emergency lane. When I looked at the wheel I saw that the complete tread had detached from the tire. A really scary experience!

Since then normally after 4, latest after 5 years I change my tires. Maybe a little bit excessive, but I never want to experience above situation again.

Just my opinion,

Dirk

 

There is no single rule for tire age, but there are some general guidelines.

1) Tires age more rapidly when mounted/inflated: There are many reasons for this, but the biggie is that air (even the nitrogen filling units at Costco etc...) contains moisture, which rots tires from the inside-out. Additionally, a tire that is weighted and sitting on a cold, damp garage floor is prone to a) flatspotting and b) the stretching of the compound allows moisture in, as well as exposes the tire to temperature and moisture variations.

2) Wrapped tires stored in climate controlled warehouses are generally pretty safe, but tires older that 10 years on the shelf shouldn't be expected to hold speed ratings. This is very simple: most tires more than 10 years old in inventory probably have been moved around, stacked in back, in and out of different facilities, and therefore cannot be expected to have been treated to the same life as a typical Tirerack inventory unit.

3) Even if stored in perfect conditions, a bias ply tire of over ten years old is a less than safe option. Bias ply tires generate more heat during use, so any dry rot and imperfections created from longer storage become amplified.

4) The more modern the tire, the longer it will last. Current compounds are so much more resiliant and stay pliable in changing temps and moisture better compared to tires even ten years ago.

Given what you have mentioned about the tire option, I would have no second thoughts about buying them and using them.

 

I'd think it'd relate to the tire type. Tire compounds tend to get harder with age. Extreme performance tire designs are based around a certain flexibility of the compound, so you get a noticeable reduction in traction as the tire ages. General use tires don't grip all that great to begin with, so the effect is less discernible.

Or, in other words, most people don't push their traction, so aging on those tires relates to when there's a danger of the tire coming apart. I had a set of Contis on the Alfa (in storage) until the tires were more than a decade old. When I put the car back on the road, the tires still held air, but there were tiny cracks all through the rubber. That was time to replace as a safety issue.

By comparison, my S03s are only seven years old, and there aren't any visible flaws, but they have significantly less grip now.

So whether 7.5 to 8 year old tires are "dangerous" depends on how much grip you expect from them, I guess.

Well, that explains the discount.

I had just been doing a comparison between the new RE-11s and the RE-01Rs (to replace my S03s).
By reports the RE-11s are significantly better tires. But with the RE-01Rs half off, I was debating.
(I've had an outrageous number of punctures on my tires in the DC metro area .. including a nail in one of the S03s.)

But I wondered why the RE-01R fronts were discounted 37% off and the rears were discounted 60% off.
Now I know. (TANSTAAFL)

New tires do still tend to have the mold release gunk on them (so you can't push them hard when first mounted) --- but I don't know if that helps protect the tire from aging in new storage.

Normally, for a Ferrari, I'd just pop for the RE-11s. (Or even Yoko A048s)
But I've had half a dozen punctures (and a ripped sidewall) on two cars in the last four years in Xtal city, compared to none in ten years in the Boston area (e.g. Big Dig).
Of course, with the housing market in the tank, there are fewer building construction trucks spewing hardware onto the roads, now.
(But more pork barrel road construction projects.)


Look at the numbers: For $600 you could get a set of RE-11s that you'd wind up replacing in six or seven years. For half that, you can get a set of RE-01Rs that you might replace in four or five years. (Not counting road hazards.)

How much is difference in performance worth? Or perhaps more directly related, how much is a (possible) two extra years before you have to swap again worth to you? Can you trust your local installer to not nick or chip the rims? Fewer changes *might* translate to less chance of damage to the rims.

For my case, I get so few years before the roads put an end to my tires, that I replaced the EVO's winter Nokians with Contis at half the price. But I do notice the reduction in performance.

But that's always the trade off: how much do you pay for performance?

(After all, you could get a Vette at half the price of a Ferrari. It wouldn't last as long, and wouldn't perform as well (as a "livable" car), but it's cheaper.)

Logically the cheaper RE-01Rs are the rational choice. But there's little about owning a Ferrari that's logical or rational.

So, that's my current level of confusion, FWIW.

But, at the end of the day, tires are a "consumable", like oil. (Although we put a lot of discussion into oil, too. )

 

So i was cruising along the german highway around 140mph.

ha ha ha - love that - "crusing" along at 140mph ... thanks for the tips ...!!

 

You can cruise along at 140mph in the wilds of NV and AZ as well but admittedly, you have to pay serious attention to the Valentine 1! It would be nice to do that where you DON"T have pay attention to a radar/laser detector. ON the other hand, in Germany, if you actually have an accident at that speed your screwed because according the regs as explained to me a few years ago, you have no insurance at speeds above 140KPH - around 85MPH. Don't know for sure if it applies everywhere or if it is still in effect but on the A-bahn between Frankfurt and Heidelberg that was the case per the Polizei...

Re the tires...personally I'd buy new ones but if they are not showing any cracks at all in the sidewalls and the tread is OK, they are probably fine.

 

For $300, I don't see how you could lose. I'm sure you'd get 5 years out of them, unless you daily drive your 328.

IMHO, all the 16" tires for the 328 are fairly cheap. I think I paid >$300 to replace one ruined runflat 18" Dunlop on my Audi last year, and ~$550 for a full set of Goodyear Eagles on the Ferrari.

 

Hey, don´t be sarcastic . That is the only thing which still makes me live in Germany / being German (been and being abroad since 10 years now and seen a lot of places i would prefer to live, unfortunately they all have general speed limits). We have so much sh*t going on here. But don´t want to go to much OT. But I think germany is the only country in the world which has no general speed limit AND roads where you actually can speed up to 190 mph (probably even further, never had a car doing this ) without jumping / flying away into oblivion because of the road condition.

Regarding the tire breakdown. I was actually lucky, because it happend during an almost straight course of the road, only slightly turning left. Due to several race track trainings i am kind of experienced regarding to gain back control over a car. But in this situation it was far from being easy. Actually i saw myself ending up ending up somewhere besides the road (or even worse in another car) but managed the situation in the end. If the road course would have been a little bit tighter to the left or the right i would have had no chance. Same applies while travelling at maybe 80mph and an even tighter road course.

Of course thermic stress has a big influence of damage occuring, but on a sharp turn the result of of a suddenly broken tire is quite similar (or even worse) at 60mph.


Regards,
Dirk

 

I put a set of those same RE01's on my 328 and a couple of customers cars. We have all been very happy with them. They are cheap and perform great. Use them up fast enough the age wont be an issue.

 

BS!
on all unlimited pieces of the Autobahn (which BTW are getting shorter and shorter and more rare about every year is think) you are allowed to drive as fast as you can. (obviously you are not allowed to put other in danger by doing this)

 

When we were there in '06 the cop said that if we were over the recommended speed, which I thought it was 140KPH but it might have been 130, we would be deemed responsible for an accident. Maybe I misunderstood him and/or the effect on insurance.

I learned to drive in Germany when I was a teenager (father stationed there in US Army) and spent a LOT of time on the Autobahn driving his '62 Chrysler 300H as fast as it would go! Unfortunately, driving a rental car in '06 I was lucky to be able to get up to half the speed that old Chrysler could hit. I used to see 140MPH indicated pretty regularly. That 300H did quite respectively on the 'Ring as well! Great fun, especially since "MY" car at the time was a '54 Opel station wagon that burned more oil than gas! Officially, I could drive the Chrysler if on a date or for "occasions." But since dad usually took the opel to work and mom didn't really drive all that much, that left me with that 300H!

I'd love to drive my 328 there but that will never happen...

 

Even it is OT, but just to clarify some things first hand: Basically in Germany (without any speed limt signs) there are three rules:

Inside towns / small towns / villages you are allowed to travel 50 km/h (approx. 30mph). Outside of those on normal roads you are allowed 100 km/h (approx. 60mph). Outside of those on roads which are not only separated by a line painted on the road but by fixed built structures / barriers as well as on the famous "Autobahn" (Highway) you can travel as fast as you like. Unfortunatly even regarding the highway about 80% of all roads are speed limited by signs. But given that we have about 13.000 km (approx. 8000 miles) of "Autobahn " this still leaves you with about 2600km (approx. 1500 miles) of unlimited roads. Problem is to find a nice one near you and go there during times when traffic allows high speed driving.

Regarding the 130 km/h (approx. 80 mph): It is right that there is a recommended speed of 130 km/h. But as stated before it is BS that you are fuc*ed if you exceed that limit. The recommended speed was a glourious idea of our gouvernment (influenced by insurance companies to limit their responsibilty regarding the comprehensive cover) some years ago (this is part of the lesser sh*t what is going on in Germany). Actually statistics told that the average Joe is driving at about 130km/h (the avarage Joe doesn´t drive a Ferrari or Porsche, right?) and so there came a regulation that if you are involved in an accident while travelling faster, which PROVABLE would not have happend if you would have driven at 130 km/h, you MIGHT PARTLY get blamed for the accident regarding the financial damage. So a lot of stuff for lawyers and courts to deal with, because there is no fixed law regarding this.

What kind of stupid regulation is this? Basically you are allowed (at certain roads) to travel as fast as you like/can, but if something happens you may be partly held responsible. As i said, one of the minor annoying things here. Nevertheless it is a maybe/maybe not scenario. As long as nothing happens you are fine. Great Logic!!

Nevertheless on those places you don´t have to worry about speeding tickets.

Sorry for OT,

Dirk

 

For a few years in the late '90's the state of Montana had "reasonable and proper" speed signage on the interstate which essentially meant no speed limit. The US congress stepped in and, along with some state reps, had that changed to 75MPH, which it is now. Interestingly, according to statistics, Montana's accident rate was lowest during the period of no speed limits. This does seem to indicate once again that speed limits don't have anything to do with safety but with revenue.

 

Tires have the ability to mess up your life (terminally) and at the very least your multi '0,000 dollar car real quick - and yet they cost a few hundred dollars every 3-5 years.

Bin the existing ones at 5 years and I wouldn't accept new tyres manufactured more than 12 months ago (largely because I expect my tyres to get to 5 years long before I'll wear them out!)

Its just not worth the risk.

 

I wish I could get more than 2 years out of my tires. Soft compound = sticky tires = spirited driving = short life.

 

You were lucky, and very smart!! You actually pulled over, and suspected/inspected the tires. Wish I figured that out......

last fall, my son was going only 65mph when front tire blew out totally, steered the alfa onto the side of the road, but ruined the front fender by stretching the metal. The kid also was lucky. Fortunately, Alfas have excellent handling , even under these conditions. Got a settlement from Continental for about $1800 for damage and new tires. They were 8 yrs old. A rare act of stupidity on my part is to blame. Never again.

 

For the new tires, I also bought from Tire Rack. They were only 3-4 months old, but as previous poster said, they turn around inventory pretty well, and tires in a climate controlled room/out of sunlight fare very well ,although the effect of oxidation is the same, guys. Oxygen rots rubber in a factory storage as well as on your car, although still slow enough not to worry.

 

I just don't believe this tire age limit thing. "Back in the day" we never heard of tire age concerns. Now, people are on TV lately, talking about replacing tires every 4-5 years. Sounds like a tire company conspiracy to me.
Now I would agree that if you're going on the track and/or traveling at very high speeds, then age could be a concern. I suspect (strongly) that these accounts of tire failure I'm reading here are not a function of age but of defects.
Tires won't last forever, but they lasted way longer than 4-5 years (again) "back in the day". Are we to believe that tire quality has gotten worse than 50 years ago? I don't think so.

(Flame suit on)

 

Admittedly, it could be a bit like Jiffy lube telling everyone that their oil needs changing every 3000 miles - unnecessary but it makes Jiffy lube a bunch of money. A lot of this maint stuff relates more to how you personally feel about it comfort-wise than anything else. Unfortunately, there is also a lot fear-mongering associated and the internet just makes it worse. Used to be that people just followed the owners manual. Now it seems as though everyone who ever drove a car knows better than the manufacturer how to maintain it!

The tire manufacturers have info available re this. Of course, most performance tires will wear out well before any sort of time factor is an issue but for cars that only put a couple thousand miles a year or less, than age becomes a factor. I have seen manufacturing data - can't recall which company at the moment - that suggests tires in the northern US (cold climates) be replaced every 10 years and those in the southern US (hot climates) every 6 regardless of wear. I guess if you live in between you can split the difference!

Obviously, if there are any sidewall cracks/bulges, etc, the tires should be replaced immediately.

 

No need to put the flame suit on.

Just out of curiosity, on the picture are the remains of the tire in question. What kind of defect (as stated Premium brand, Goodyear Eagle F1) would cause such a failure in your opinion?

BTW, if you move your car on a race track and your tires last 4-5 years, then there is defenitly no need to move on a race track

Well we are talking about cars that are 20-30 years old and I am pretty sure that a lot of owners of these car actually know better than the manufacturer. Come on, put yourself in the position of the manufacturer: You want your cars to survive the warranty period without major defects, and after that they should last long enough (have defects here or there => spare parts business) that people don´t start talking about how sh*tty your cars are. No manufacturer is aiming for a lifetime of 10 to 15 years plus.

Totally agree on this. As I wrote before, i regulary checked the tires for any damages. As you can see in the picture the complete treat detached from the tire. From my opinion defenitly had to do with the age. As written it was on a Mercedes 300SL, almost only driven in summertime, exposure to sunlight and high temperatures and so on.


Regards,

Dirk
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