Sure, come on out. 350 rwhp is very do-able. You'll probably want an intercooler, I think it's right on the absolute limit without. Kits come after the house and the 2v job I need to do. I'm thinking it will be june-july. I'll be doing one for another guy with a QV, maybe we can do yours at the same time. Do you have EFI yet? Great, sounds like a plan.
Mark, I considered welding up an aluminum box but couldn't come up with an uncomplicated way to get those intercooler tubes in there and sealed . I considered having something cast too but decided that didn't leave enough options if I needed to make a change. I did some lay-out work and a lot of pre-cutting on the billets with a table saw today. That saves a lot of milling and creates some usable scraps instead of just mountains of chips. I just finished making aluminum rotor hats to adapt Porsche 996/Brembo brakes to the 308 and made about 3 big garbage bags worth of chips! This is my first dealing with Opcon so I'm not that familiar with the different model designations but what I have is an OA420MX. It has a 1.4 pressure ratio and displaces 2 liters per revolution. I was originally going to use a Vortec since I'd used them before and also since they come with air/water intercoolers but they never got back to me after filling out their forms to determine what pieces I would need for this 3 liter V8. Then the Laminova intercooler cartridges really caught my attention when I was at the Performance and Racing Industry show in Indianapolis last December (I THINK it was in December anyway but a great, must see event). I was already familiar with the Whipple screw type units so it didn't take much to convince me what I should buy. Since I have the stock cast pistons in the engine right now I think I will initially set up for 8PSI and later try to sneak it up to 10 PSI but this is why I'm being anal about air temp. Where in PA are you? I'm right on the PA border in Frenchtown, NJ below I78. Wil de Groot
That's what it comes down to, mountains of chips or pounds of welding rod, I think I used 10lbs. I thought about casting but figured since it was a one-off (2-off actually), it would be more work to make the pattern than the intake. Cool, I'm pretty sure I'm going with 996 or 996tt parts on mine. Next winter I think. It sounds like they have changed a few things since I last checked. The pressure ratio is up and the displacements a little different. 2 liter is about a perfect size I think. Tgey used to have a 1.6 which was a bit small and a 2.2 which is a bit big for normal boost. You should be really happy with that. Are you running a by-pass valve? I use one I bought from the eaton guys, it was $80 I think and seems to work well. The engine surges at idle without it and it improves the blower life and fuel economy. I liked the cartriges too when I saw them. I tend to be very conservative though and just couldn't find enough tech data to put my mind completely at easy. I went with a standard copper/nickle alloy unit, heavy but good heat tranfers numbers and durable. I ended up with one anyway, the oil aeroquip oil/water cool I bought has one in it. The new house in in Elverson, basically at the corner of rt82 and 282. A little north of the PA turnpike and right betwee the downingtown and morgantown exits. Wil de Groot[/QUOTE]
Mark, You are only a little over an hour from me. We should get together sometime. I am starting my brakes and suspension this weekend. It should be done in a few weeks. I will get ahold of you when I am finished and its all set up. I`m not sure that I will boost the engine yet. I will wait to see how the susp. and brakes turn out first. If I get the results I`m after there, I will look into boosting. Is your engines internals stock or have you upgraded to forged pistons and copper head gaskets? John
Sounds like a plan. I have stock internals except the valve springs and the rings. I'm pretty sure that after you have a ride, you'l know you NEED a supercharger
OK, after a bit more digging, it looks like I posted some misinformation. Eaton only lisenses the right from lysholm, which as Wil said, is owned by opcon. Wil, where did you buy your blower?
Hi. Sorry for slow responses. I've been really busy and haven't been on-line. I bought a by-pass valve from Opcon. Looks like a nice little unit. It's part aluminum billet, part plastic. I just learned they sell intercooler water pumps also but haven't bought any yet. I'm thinking of running two pumps with two separate heat exchangers at the front of the car, under the headlights. A friend has a bunch of old Saabs standing around and I'm thinking of pirating two air to air intercoolers and converting them to water/air. I want to make sure that the left and right cylider banks get the same air charge temp so I'm segregating the intercooler system left and right. Opcon has a place in Connecticut. The best way to reach them is by phone @ 860-388-4960. Their website really sucks and I didn't have much better luck with the CD ROM or e-mailed documents they sent me but Stefan, Matt and George are really friendly, helpfull and knowledgable so for me Phone and simple e-mails worked best. E-mail: [email protected] Downingtown, isn't that a Phily suburb? I've redone my suspension too. I drilled a bunch of lightening holes, bead blasted and painted the A-arms and related parts. I also installed urethane bushings and bought bigger sway bars and externally adjustable aluminum Varishocks from Tristram Buckley out in California through an fchat referal. The custom made Kinesis wheels were also sourced via an other very kind fchat referal. I was hoping to have everything together soon but I've run out of money for the moment. Wil
hi all, i tryed to read the thread but my english is not so good and also my mechanics knowledges ( even if i am mechanical engineer at the beackground). i like my mondial cab european 3.2QV, but the problem of this car is it s weight (1500kg) and "low" power 270HP. I wonder if there would be a nice system, which do not considerably change the original design of the car, for adding something like 30 to 60 HP. thanx a lot if You have any ideas.
There was a very long thread here re the 928 motorsports SC kit. Looked pretty good and I was thinking seriously about it. But I looked on their site the other day and, under "supercharger Kits" there doesn't seem to be a link or listing for it any more. Previously there was a lot of info and pics of their setup for the 328. It appears that they have dropped all references to Ferrari supercharging. Too bad...
I hope this isn't true - they put a lot of solid work into that development. I guess it was a bit over a year ago there was a flurry of supercharger development for the K-jetronic cars - I remember three specific FChat development projects: Two "bolt-on" kits sponsored by 928 Motorsports (Gaudio) and Forza (Charness), I believe, and Verell's adaptation of Mark E's supercharged EFI set-up. The two commercially sponsored projects actually made it to the road with dyno documentation, with solid gains as they worked out the usual development bugs, and Verell's continues in development in his usual brilliant perfectionist style. As said before, there were concurrent separate threads on each of these, and some excellent discussion. Even not being a forced induction kind of guy (at least not in Ferraris), the work was impressive and I learned a lot. Perhaps they'll see this thread and give some follow-up.
seems like the 308/328/Mondial supercharger bolt-on kit is no longer shown on their site but they still offer it, now and again : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200315048651&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem= the link to the preview of their install guide is still there (6 and 7 from above): http://www.928motorsports.com/install.html
Wonder if they now offer it routinely on ebay or if they were just getting rid of the one they had? Seems like if they were making those kits they would list them on their actual website. I'm wondering if there was simply insufficient demand to justify continuing with it. I mean, in reality, how many of those kits could they actually sell? It's not like making go-fast parts for a small block Chevy...
I sent them two email messages re the SC kits a few weeks back and received no response at all. Last year, I sent them a couple of questions regarding it and they replied immediately. So I have to conclude that they quit producing it.
If you go to their site en select sitemap you get all the superchargerkits including the one for the 308/328/Mondial. http://www.928motorsports.com/sitemap.html I hope they still sell them cause in the future this is something i would like to do too.
100HP more on my 270HP ! It is terrific. To my mind this is too much. How about transmission, motor itself ...? I wonder if the design can support that power. And if yes, how about durability of the car ? For myself I think something like 5OHP would be enough. Anyway the price is interesting. If I could setup the turbo pressure and then take a value for 50HP overcharging, why not. Another problem, here in France is insurrance. I am quit sur with this kind of mod, in cae of any problem, insurance is canceled. That is another subject but a big subject here.
If I recall, they made 5 sets of parts and I only know of 2 instalations....so there are perhaps 3 kits available. When I did my first supercharger I got all kinds of "you shoulld make kits" type comments......I got no actual orders though and I think they have most likely found the same thing. The $5k kit turned into a $7k-$8k install plus labor, so $10k-$12k to have it done. That's a lot of money..... and it most likely lowers the value of the car. A 308 with 350+ hp is an absolute joy to drive. It's a whole different car from a stock 308 and better is every way, but it comes with problems. Any time anything breaks the first things blamed is the supercharger, very few of the shops that know anything about ferraris will know anything at all about any hotrod parts you add so it can be even harder to get the car worked on. Most people simply make the call that it's best to live with the 308 as is or sell it and step up to a 355/360. There is just not much market for 308/328 hotrod parts.
In that case you might be better off building a 350hp naturally aspirated engine. It could appear quite original, certainly original enough not to draw the attention of an insurance ajuster. Or you could buy a factory turbo car and then swap out the stock 2.0 for a 3.2 (or more) engine. It could look completely stock and be making 400+ hp. There are always solutions to pesky problems
Adding essentially 100 HP to a naturally aspirated 3.2 litre engine is a rather heavy duty task. Certainly not saying it can't be done but it couldn't be done without serious driveability compromises. You'd have an engine with absolutely no low/midrange at all.
You'd be surprised I think. Russ's is making something like 320-330hp these day with fairly mild work and seeing with gains across the board.....his engine beat the centrifugally supercharged engines up to about 6000-6500 rpm. With the extra flow of ITBs vs the webers and a bit higher lift cams and the flow they bring, 350hp is a good number I think.
Well, maybe so. I'd be interested in the specific engine mods as well as a dyno comparison with the oem. It's difficult for me to believe it would have a satisfactory low/midrange but hey, I'm sure willing to be convinced otherwise.
Basically, the Mondial 3.2 recieved just a very simple opening up of breathing on the stock engine - very mild cams with stock durations (to keep stock powerband and low-end torque) wih increased lift (increasing flow across the band). Very basic. The basic tweaks were: 10.5:1 pistons ported/polished & flowed high velocity heads Weber 44 DCNF with 38mm venturis The Webers simply let the engine breathe better with less restriction than the K-jetronic through heads that have an even greater port velocity than stock; combined with the cams, there is nothing to really rob low end torque (overlap, etc) And the low end response is helped a bit by the higher compression pistons and accell jets of the Webers. Again, very simple. Remembering caveats about rear wheel inertial dynos, stock K-jetronic US car dynos anout 214 SAE rwhp at about 6500 rpm on a Dyno-jet brand dynomometer . Just adding 40 DCNFs to the stock engine eliminating the induction resistance of the K-jetronic raises that to 242 SAE rwhp at abot 6700 (suggesting about 290 at the flywheel), while with the above tuning the engine makes into the 260s SAE rwhp at about 7200 rpm (suggesting close to 320 at the flywheel). since the same cam durations were used yielding the same breathing characteristics, once the carbs were set the power band ends up just being a fattened up extension of the original - very drivable as before, but noticably faster above 4000 rpm and pulling well above 7K. All of these pulls were made on Dyno-jets, and really only address the quantitative improvements in this car, but you get the idea. It is my personal opinion that all of the chassis/drivetrain components should 'match'. With the stock gear ratios, clutch, brakes and chassis, I believe the 'magic' balance for a street driven 3.2 for best usable power and best reliability occurs around 300 or so hp with a fattened stock power band. It's all about balance and mission. And to achieve 98 - 100 hp/liter on a na carburreted street engine is pretty cool all in itself = a tribute to the orignal Rocci design. jmho; ymmv
Got it! Makes sense since the cams were not radically changed. I am surprised at that limitation of the K jetronic. I am NOT familiar at all with these units but it is my understanding that they are used on engines making considerable more HP than the 3x8 engines. So it would seem to me that they are capable of supplying a lot more fuel/air than these engines require at the oem HP level. But again, I have no personal experience with Ferrari engines/systems though I will correct that soon...
