Hello Marc, Regarding your comment on the Bertone carrozzeria and Maserati autovettura numbers: perhaps these numbers do not give that much information, as you say, and are therefore not very interesting, but in my humble opinion this changes when these numbers read 500.000 and 25.000 respectively, like on my Khamsin... Since this is my first post on this forum, I would like to say 'hello!' to all Khamsin-enthusiasts! I never knew I could find so much info on Khamsins on a Ferrari.chat website... greetings, Wil
Hello Wil: welcome to Ferrarichat! I have been very busy with the books but this is the occasion to mention your very special car to those who are interested here: AM120004, confirmed by mister Cozza to be the Turin 1972 show car and that displayed on a golf course in the famous early photoshoot, gold with chrome bumpers, "brown pumpkin" interior and numerous details which are very different from the production cars. Since AM120002 was destroyed in the crash test 004 is the oldest surviving car and one that can truly be called a prototype. As we discussed and more importantly as signor Cozza said bringing it back to the original gold (from its current black) and replacing the current steering wheel with one with a wooden rim as in the period photos of this car would be the proper thing to do...ideally. I spoke with Simon Kidston about your car yesterday in Geneva regarding Villa d'Este when it is ready (he is the speaker there, the MC) and he said it would have to be in running condition. Here some of the photos you sent: below in the next post photos from 1972. best regards, Marc Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
004 after its public relations duties was sold to a gentleman in Arcireale, Sicily, then was painted from gold to black (there is gold easily visible under the black) and found its way to Holland where it gathered dust in a warehouse filled with more modern Maseratis for a number of years. It does now have the nose vents, unpainted but these were clearly added later on. Then Wil bought it. The first photo below shows its unusual fuel filler cap, behind the rear number plate. Also notice that 004 has no lips around the rear wheel arches and that the metal chrome trim around the side glass and elsewhere is of higher quality than the production cars. Of course the interior is different and there are many detail differences (Wil have you taken that photo from very low down of the rear, directly from behind the car? Look forward to it thanks!). 002 had an even more different interior compared to standard Khamsins, of course Gandini as he confirmed to me started the Khamsin design from the Urraco. Below are some photos of it in a scan of a 2 page article on Turin 72, where the famous John Bolster gives it high praise (near the end of the text) and one of the famous golf course photos (taken near Turin by Bertone's Gian Beppe Panico). I am very happy that this car has been located! best regards, Marc Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The numbers gave you that early Khamsin.Thats something Marc so the numbers are importent. Kind regards! Magnus
Hello Magnus! Well let us say that the chassis number was the one that proved which car it is and that the other numbers confirmed it, not the other way round...but I am sure you agree that what matters is it is identified. I can't wait to see 004 back in gold again, Wil: let me know how I can help. Now what I am really curious about is the exact specs of the white prototype 002 (photos of which were posted months ago in this thread) to find out if it had the hydraulics, how much of a Ghibli it really was underneath etc. Another dark hole is that the factory has nothing on 006: there is no paperwork at all on AM12006.... best regards, Marc PS: Magnus do we know if the rebuild of AM120US1230 near Uppsala north of Stockholm has progressed? best regards, Marc
I don't think the rebuild of 1230 has progressed. The owner has moved 2 times in the last years so he had no time i think. I have no contact with him but he is a member of the Swedish Maseraticlub. Kind regards, Magnus
Thanks. Yes I don't think it is a good idea to hold one's breath while waiting for that one to be completed...
I have a 1977 Khamsin. The car has been restored, but in driving the car, there are strong fumes in the interior of the car. All the fuel lines have been replaced. I do not know what else to do. Please help, since as it is, the car is not driveable. Any suggestions, ideas, experience with the same situation?
Check the pipe that comes from the tank to let out the overfilled fuel to the ground. This pipe can can change it position over the years. It has to go straight behind the rear panels. Ghiblis often have the same problem. Ciao! Walter
It is not an unheard of issue but can be solved. It is important to distinguish exhaust fumes from fuel fumes. Here are notes and advice from various eminent experts: Frank Mandarano, former owner of MIE who occasionally posts here: “Having experienced this Khamsin problem many times, I would like to pass on a couple tips. In my experience, the number one cause of fumes in the Khamsin cabin is from the fresh air seal in the engine compartment. The seal is usually non existent or old and cracked. The hood shuts onto it, and allows fresh air in through the hood grill. Simply replace the seal with some fairly dense foam by gluing it down, on both surfaces. Then check the quality of the seal by using a light coating of Vaseline on one side and baby powder on the other. Close the hood and reopen adjust the height of the hood and repeat. This technique can also be used on the hatch and door seals. Door and rear hatch seals can be shimmed up or replaced. Fumes are generated in two ways, first and most likely would be cracked (USA) exhaust headers under the aluminum wrapping. Next would be blow by. The cracked exhaust can be welded up after removing the wrapping, or better yet Spend the money and replace them with Euro headers for a better sound and more HP. The blow by, well that could be a $15,000 bill, you may not want to go there. I hope this helps." As Frank notes the US exhaust headers can also crack under the aluminium wrapping, they did on a US model Bora the restoration of which I supervised in Modena. George Perfect of England has a Khamsin he knows intimately. He states that the fumes come throught the gearlever opening and that sealing that properly is the answer. Here is another set of questions and answers courtesy Enrico’s excellent website: http://www.maserati-indy.co.uk/alfieri00a.htm The answers are from Andy Heywood of Bill McGrath’s the pre-eminent classic Maserati service and restoration company in England. Steve in the USA writes: "Hi Enrico, I have heard many complaints and many solutions to problems with exhaust fumes in khamsins. Problems causing exhaust fumes in the cockpit with the windows open seem to be: 1.) exhaust tips too short 2.) leakage at exhaust connections w/ headers 3.) rear compartment seals around body/frame intersection 4.) poor aerodynamics of rear underbody 5.) deteriorated gasket at fresh air intake under hood I've repaired 2, 3, & 5, and problem is reduced, but not eliminated. Is this problem simply endemic, and should I stop throwing money around, or is there a final solution. Thanks, Steve." Reply from Andy:- Re: Khamsin exhaust fumes. "Number 3 is usually the route cause of this problem. It is not easy to see where the problem lies when the car is complete, but basically, the area between the rear of the boot floor and the outer panelling of the car is open and this allows air/gas to circulate around the inside of the rear panel. There are two things that you can do to eliminate it. One is to fill the area with expanded foam (although this does nothing for the longevity of the panels) and the other is to re-trim the alcantara area that is on the inside of this area (i.e. all the way round the boot slam panel from the boot lid aperture to the perspex window) and make sure that there is a good seal between everything. We believe that this is all Maserati did to get rid of the problem but as cars get older, they tend to have breaks/cracks/missing pieces of trim. We have successfully eliminated the problem on a number of cars by doing this. Andy." Yet more ideas: There are obviously many places to look for the cause of this problem. Two spring readily to mind: 1) Make sure the rear hatch seals tightly. Not just that the rubber is good, but that you are getting a good seal. Even a small aperture back there will let in plenty of fumes given the vortexes created. 2) Make sure all apertures in the firewall are sealed and try to seal the transmission tunnel, everywhere. Of course I would check all of the above, simple enough. Other possibilities are cracked exhaust headers and or holes in the floor: many Khamsins have floor pans that have rusted or been damaged by improper jacking up of the car.” End of quote. Annoying yes but I have never heard of a Khamsin which could not be cured: mine for example used to have it and is now owned and driven often by a lady who would not tolerate any exhaust smell so the problem was comprehensively cured. In the case of my ex car it was cracked exhaust headers. With the above tips you and your driving enjoyment will prevail! Best regards, Marc
Question for Marc: In January you mentioned sending some questions to Mr. Cozza. Did you ever have the opportunity to do so? We would love to hear the results. Thanks, Michael
Hello Michael: Had been meaning to do so but really busy: ok will post them tonight, I promise how is that?! until later, Marc
You can ask Cozza yourself at this year's Maserati Owners National Meet as he will be the guest of honor. www.italiancarsatpocono.com Joe
Thanks all for the various suggestions. It seems to me that we are talking about exhaust fumes, but I am not really sure. The mechanic took the car away yesterday, and today he called me saying that the gaskets in the gas pump were leaking, and that this could be part of the problem. They are going to reseal the trunk as well as the rear lights, since one of them does not seem to have a good seal, and some exhaust fume could come back into the car. Anyway, I am going to pass all the suggestions to them, and once again, thanks a lot, Eduardo
Here at last, Michael and others, are the answers Ermanno Cozza kindly sent me in recent weeks. They are as they came: notes hand written by him on my fax, a smorgasbord of all kinds of information (would like to have dinner before midnight). To be clear only the portions with quotation marks are his words, the rest are my questions and comments. I had asked which was the chassis number of the very early light green car driven by then reigning World champion Emerson Fittipaldi in the September 1974 issue of the major Italian monthly Quattroruote: he confirmed: “ It was AM120024, built June 1974, verde chiaro, pelle senape (mustard leather) used by Maserati for test drives for which it was registered MO 327913. It was sold in December 75 to Germany as a used car.” This is interesting as neither my database nor that which Walter gave me had any information on it, confirmed just today: where is it now I wonder? Most likely color changed or no longer extant... According to Mr Cozza “The owner of Quattroruote, Mr Mazocchi also had a Khamsin but it was AM120034, owned in the name of Editoriale Domus the magazine’s mother company.” AM120238 built April 77 rosso rubino, pelle rossa & senape (two tone leather red and mustard!), sold in Germany was claimed to have a bit of a special engine by a certain W. B…...? Mr Cozza answered: “ Yes.” to my question about whether this car in fact had some factory engine tuning work done, though without giving details. AM120US1222, now in Sweden two tone silver and blue was NOT like that new: “It was built in October 77 black with red interior, sold to the US like 99% of US versions. The prototype known as Tipo 124, green, owned by the Pannini collection is: “On an Indy chassis” not Khamsin. The slight 1cm tiny spoiler seen on a brown Khamsin chassis number unknown believed to be in Austria is: “Not something [Mr Cozza] remembers and was not in [his] view a factory modification.” Regarding the German market cars Walter and Wolf Z. who also posts here occasionally don’t agree but Mr Cozza states: “The German TUV homologation department did not want the rear glass and it was substituted with aluminium.” End of quote…I must say I recall my dad showing me one in 1975 at Citroen Germany where he worked and it had the rear glass…hmmm perhaps only some cars had the modification which is what W. and Wolf mentioned. The jury is out on this one: as the photo in this A.M.S. magazine test drive shows the car had an Italian plate. http://www.maseratikhamsinregistry.com/art_103.html Another photo, which I posted below shows a gold Khamsin in Austria (currently advertised by Manro classics but they won’t answer enquiries) which has the back end gold as opposed to transparent…but this car has also been seen with glass at the back so modified once or twice! When were parallel wipers replaced with crossed ones? “The first cars had them crossed, then with the cars incorporating the nose vents the parallel wipers appeared., then they became crossed again: it was simply a question of what supplies and parts the parts supplier gave them at a given time.” Hint: always think of a simple reason for a puzzling quandary like this… When did the transition from the initial seats to the late production seats occur? “Information regarding the seats does not exist.” To clarify once and for all: when exactly did the nose vents appear? I thought it was 1975 but there seem to be some cars from the first year (74) with those vents and to the contrary there are younger cars which do NOT have them…? “[They appeared in] 1975 with [the beginning of] exports to the US. This was, like on the Bora and the Merak, done to avoid high water temperatures at low speeds.” AM120US1174 sold in the last two years by Ivan Ruiz to S.B. on the Pacific coast, a black car with red interior in superb condition? “Sold new in Canada” (one of the few). AM12002 was the white prototype? It was destroyed in the crash test? “Yes!” AM120272 details? “Sold new in Japan, automatic, white with black leather.” End of quote (it is now in Holland, red, with the same owner as AM120004 after having also spent some time in the US where it was fitted with some of the US spec items such as the boxes under the front bumper to carry the indicators). AM120004, now in Holland, owned by Wil Lierop who just began posting here, seems very special and I believe it is the prototype which was at the 1972 Turin show: if confirmed it would be a nice discovery! It was sold to a signor Rosario Bonbaci of Arcireale in Sicily. Now it is black and has a modern wheel and has the air vents on the nose (though not painted) but there is gold paint in various places if you look carefully underneath etc. It has the hole for the fuel filling behind the rear number plate, two small rear bumpers, the window trim is different, the interior is all different. If you confirm that it is in fact the car in the golf course photos and of the 1972 Turin show then I would advise Mr Lierop to bring it back to its specification as when new, i.e. putting it back to gold and fitting a wood steering wheel as it had at the time. “Yes! Gold beige.” What do you think? “When a car is being restored the first rule is to put it back as it as originally.” Last question: was AM120006 a normal car or was she also different (than standard)? “It did not have differences because either it was crashed or it was not produced, I have no documents which would allow me to be certain.” That’s it! Best regards, Marc Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Marc, I never heared that German TÜV did NOT permitt the rear glass section with Khamsins! Most of the cars I know here in Germany got this modification by their former- or current owners. Something about this blue Khamsin that was tested by AMS: Juergen Lewandowski, author of 2 books about Maserati history and various other motor-publications, was at that time member of the AMS test-crew. During his time with them, 2 Maseratis had been tested: the green Ghibli and the blue Khamsin. Both (!!) are seen on photos with the same (!!) registration plate! Lewandowski told me that the AMS-crew used the same number as a gag! He can`t remember from which car it came. But this easy to find out - ask the PGA in Italy. About the nose vents positioned above the front-bumper: my ex-car #AM120.058 was completed in April 1974 and sold new to Valenti S.p.A. (reg. LI 301731) Livorno, Italy - so, no US-specs-car! Ermanno Cozza is wrong on that point! Ciao! Walter
Walter, I think he means that they began putting the nose vents in "ALL" cars when they started building cars for the US. Joe
Yes, Joe, Walter, Cozza meant to say that that nose vents appeared on ALL cars, including Euro cars, when the US car production started in 1975, one year after the start of Euro car production. I have seen at least a couple of much later cars without the nose vents though so one of three things: they were built like that because such noses were left in stock at the factory. They were repaired like that after damage because the new noses were not available or owners decided to change back to the earlier style by aesthetic choice. best regards, Marc
Marc, as always, thanks. The answers from Mr. Cozza are a valuable part of the history of this great car. One more thing - was the question regarding the use of "bullet" shaped side-view mirrors vs. "bendy" rectangular side-view mirrors posed to Mr. Cozza? I have a strong feeling the answer may be "whatever we had in the parts bin at the time" but I am still curious to see if this something that was design driven or regulation driven. Thanks, Michael p.s. maybe this question just has to live on until Pocono.
Walter, Michael: there are two ways to deal with the fact that with Italian cars some questions just have no answers: tear your hair out or accept that mystery is as part of the charm of these cars best regards, Marc
...hehe...you are right - of course! But when you dig a little deeper into it you`ll find something. I`ll remember Cozza calling me 4 years ago asking me "Hey Walter - what do you know about the 300S of Mr. ABC? As of our records the car doesn`t exist! Is it a relica?" I prooved him thats one of the best 300S around.................! Ciao! Walter
