The soccer penalty kick "problem" - Another idea.... | FerrariChat
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The soccer penalty kick "problem" - Another idea....

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Fast_ian, Mar 19, 2009.

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  1. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    #1 Fast_ian, Mar 19, 2009
    Hey,

    With the UEFA Cahmpions league now well under way the dreaded PK's are back..... We had a long discussion on this during Euro 2008 wherein I said I'd (almost!) rather have a coin toss decide it.

    However, my son was in town recently. He can't remember where he heard it, but how about this:

    - The game is tied after 90 mins (or, 180 in the case of 2 leg matches) - Take the PK's in the usual fashion - Let's say team A is now "leading", BUT:
    - Now play the extra 30 minutes - 0-0, Team A wins. 1-1 (or whatever), team A wins.
    - But, if team B wins the extra time, they win (ie, the results of the PK's are rendered irrelevant.)

    This should stop the "underdogs" playing for the tie ["We'd be really happy if it went to PK's as we know we can't beat 'em on the pitch".]

    Whoever's behind after the PK's has to come out and attack.....

    Comments?

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  2. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

    May 4, 2006
    5,836
    Texas
    #2 ferraridude615, Mar 19, 2009
    I think they should move the penalty kick line back a few feet, at the current distance no goalie in the world has the speed or reaction time to save the ball. Currently the line is 12 yards out, consider making it 15 or more.
     
  3. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    #3 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 20, 2009
    Any keeper can stop the ball if he is good at reading the player.
     
  4. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    #4 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 20, 2009
    in football if you play 2 leg knock out matches an away goal give you an advantage. So if the games end 0-0 and 1-1, the team that scored away move on.

    So the idea above will be like..

    2 teams play. After 90 minutes the game has ended in a draw, 0-0.
    They now move directly to penalties.
    Team A is leading after penalties.
    They now move to playing that extra 30 minutes.
    The extra time end 0-0 so team A wins.

    But, if team B scores, they win, eventhough they were behind going into the extratime?

    Lets say Team A lead with 1 goal going into the extra time. Should Team B score 1 goal or more to win the game in the extra time?

    How many penalty kicks should be taken before the extra time? 1? 3? 5?

    If 5, what if 1 team lead 5-0 going into the extra time?
    The game will most likely be over at that point anyway.

    I think the current system works fine.

    What I want changed is the off-side rule. Adopt some hockey rule or something. like a twoline pass.
     
  5. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #5 Fast_ian, Mar 20, 2009
    Understood - I have no problem with away goals counting "more" than home goals to decide tied 2 leg matches. But if the games both end 1-1 we go to penalties:

    Exactly - The draw could of course be any score but you've got it.....

    Same as it now - 5 for sure, and then 1 x 1 (if required) until someone "goes ahead" - They haven't won, but they're now leading - The actual PK score doesn't matter, you're ahead..... I then have to come out in extra time and score - If I do we "forget" that the PK's were even taken - Assuming you don't score again of course - At the end of 120 minutes if the score on the pitch is tied, then we fall back to the PK result and you'd win [NO SUDDEN DEATH! - That really sucks!]

    OK - I beg to differ. I hate hearing fans saying "if we can get 'em to PK's, we're in with a chance"..... Negative football sucks - At least this way both teams know what they've got to do in the extra time - ON THE PITCH, as a team, etc etc.....

    Gotta respectfully disagree there as well, sorry! - I have no problem with the offside rule - Linesmen [sorry, "assistant referees" :)] that can see straight would be nice, but offside is, to me anyway, an integral part of the game.

    Oh, no, no, no!..... Especially since the keeper's now allowed to move before the ball is kicked..... It's something of a pet subject of mine (you'd never have guessed, huh!] that these guys make millions and can't *always* score - It's very rare for a shootout to go more than 5 "rounds" - At least one or two always seem to miss or get saved on each team. [We always coached kids to kick it, hard, straight at the keeper - He's going one way or the other - Blast it right thru' where he *was*..... Don't try and get fancy and slot it in the corner (you'll miss)....]

    As always, my 02c
    Cheers,
    Ian
    PS - I see you're a Liverpool fan - Congrats on going thru in the Champs league - I'm having some serious fun needling the "Italian" contingent who like to claim their premiership (La Liga?) is "better" than ours - err, "How many teams do you have in the final 8?"..... England's got four!......
     
  6. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    #6 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 20, 2009
    Yeah, that is true *LOL* But it can be nervewrecking enough ;)

    But wouldn't that invite the leading team to play ultra defensive footy? We have seen many times when a club goes ahead against a team like Liverpool they immediately fall back and defend.


    I agree that playing for the PK only is really boring. Maybe something like delay of the game should be brought in? Used in handball often. When the attacking team is just shoving the ball around, the ref could whistle for delay of the game. Kinda like when he yellowcard players. Delay of the game could also give a 10 minute penalty to a player.

    The problem is that the rule say they should be clear from the last defender, but hardly anyone is that, and the assistant linesmen still stop the game. That is sooooooooo annoying.


    Yep, moving the ball further away from the goal would be kinda silly, and probably also backfire.


    Thanks :D
    Now up against Chelsea AGAIN!!!!!!!
    I think both in Italy (Seria A) and Spain (La Liga) they claim to have the best league. I beg to differ. :)

    Premier League is THE best by far.

    2008-09 Quarter finals
    England, 4 teams
    Italy, 0 teams
    Spain, 2 teams

    2007-08 Quarter finals (Eventually Manchester United won the final against Chelsea)
    England, 4 teams
    Italy, 1 team
    Spain, 1 team

    2006-07 Quarter finals (Eventually Milan won the final against Liverpool)
    England, 3 teams
    Italy, 2 teams
    Spain, 1 team

    2005-06 Quarter finals (eventually Barca won the final against Arsenal)
    England, 1 team
    Italy, 3 teams
    Spain, 2 teams

    2004-05 Quarter finals (Eventually Liverpool won the final against Milan)
    England, 2 teams
    Italy, 3 teams
    Spain, 0 teams

    So atleast 1 English club in the final each year, the past 4 years.

    Not a coincidence :D
     
  7. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #7 Fast_ian, Mar 21, 2009
    Agreed, but now at least one of 'em *has* to try and score, rather than both sitting back to "take their chances"..... and we know offense is the best form of defense..... Everyone in extra time is so scared of *losing* they don't even try and *win*.

    +1

    Chelsea is gonna be tough - Good luck, I "hate" Chelski!

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  8. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

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    #8 Carsonp, Mar 21, 2009
    First off they need to get rid of 1/2 the players anyway... 5 on each side + the goalie. Tied? move to 4 vs 4 like hockey and play it out. No shootouts in playoffs/important games IMHO
     
  9. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

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    #9 ferraridude615, Mar 21, 2009
    Anyone remember the shootouts they had in the NASL (North American Soccer League, the league the Cosmos played in).
    You had 5 seconds, from about 30 yards out and had to try and score.
     
  10. AlexO91

    AlexO91 F1 Rookie

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    #10 AlexO91, Mar 21, 2009
    Why not forget the PK's all to gether and play until golden goal like they used to. And you get to use three more sub's during extra time.
     
  11. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    #11 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 21, 2009
    Why?
     
  12. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    #12 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 21, 2009
    They should have tried that at a highlevel championship like the world cup or european cup.
     
  13. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    #13 Cozmic_Kid, Mar 21, 2009
    The golden goal sucked big time. Was way too boring.
     
  14. DJS

    DJS Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2006
    351
    Sydney, Australia
    #14 DJS, Mar 22, 2009
    I disagree, a team will always try to protect its lead, and in the above scenario there is nothing stopping Team A from playing negative football in "extra time" to preserve their win, and I don't think I have ever seen two teams neutrally play to get to a shoot out. The above scenario would make PK's much less interesting to watch IMO from a viewers standpoint. Some of the best football I have seen played is when a team desperately goes for the jugular to avoid the lottery of penalties.
     
  15. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #15 Fast_ian, Mar 22, 2009
    What are you watching! [Aussie rules :D?]

    Seriously, my (biggest) problem with penalties is that's exactly what they *don't* do (in most cases) - They're terrified of losing so they both sit back and "take their chances" with the PK's. If one of 'em *had* to score I reckon we'd see things open up a little. If they don't they lose.....

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  16. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #16 Fast_ian, Mar 22, 2009
    Why? - The same "pressure" would apply, the same 5 guys (maybe more) have got to make 'em etc [Although, as I've said before, I don't find 'em "interesting" in any way in the first place.]

    But, the difference would be that there's still a chance to overcome a deficit, on the pitch, with all 11 guys involved, the way it should be decided - Not via this damn lottery system......

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  17. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #17 Fast_ian, Mar 22, 2009
    +1

    The "best" scenario IMHO is when someone scores early in extra time (Or starts the ET with the lead!) - The other guys then have to throw everything forward as they know they've got to score - Now *that* can get exciting.....

    The NASL tried all kinds of "crazy" (innovative?) stuff - "kick in's" anyone?..... But, the golden goal wasn't a good choice in any way (IMHO.)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  18. DJS

    DJS Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2006
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    #18 DJS, Mar 22, 2009
    In most cases, the team which has dominated for the full 120mins will attempt to kill off the game before the lottery of penalty kicks. I don't think any rule change will kill all forms of negative football, but I respect your position and see your point of view - we all hate negative football!

    Aussie Rules is a great spectator sport! I am a much bigger Football (Soccer) fan than Australian Rules fan but if you come down under and watch a full game I am sure you will enjoy it!

    Cheers.
     

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