LH lied to stewards?

Yes No doubt Ryan has been the scapegoat, as I understand it LH got out of the car spoke the truth, then Ryan or whoever tried to be smart, back fired big time. At the end of the day, IMO Mclaren didn't know what the hell to say or do for the best, why because at the end of the day no-one really knows from one day to the next what, or how Max will interpret the rules.

Mclaren IMO are basically **** scared where the hammer will fall on them next, hence the confusion, in the race I believe they were at the time trying to do the right thing, pity they twisted it with two versions of the event's. Lewis was in the middle, and at the time probably got slammed by his team for opening his mouth in the 1st place , with the truth that is..

 

Steve I think you're cutting the boys from Woking a bit too much slack. No matter how you cut it they lied to the stewards and that in and of itself demands a strong sanction.
There's a saying in baseball that its easier to fire one manager than a whole poster of players. There's no way that they'd cut Lewis but the team had to send a message to the FIA they are serious and to the rest of the team that this sort of thing can't be allowed.
Call it schadenfreude but I'm getting quite a kick out of the whole shamozzle besides I hear that there's a race this weekend.

 

LOL Dave, your probably right, they shot themselves in the foot no doubt about it, but then do you believe everything that comes out of the FIA.

It's not good but as you say no matter what way you cut it looks bad.

Always a pleasure to chat with one as yourself that can some how inject humour, but make a point to which I tend to always agree..

 

Since this topic can't be left alone, questions for anyone that knows:



Did Hamilton lie to the Stewards?

Who told Hamilton to lie?

Is lying to the stewards something that deserves a penalty?

If Hamilton did intentionally lie to the stewards, what does Max have to do with that lie?

So who at the end of the day is responsible for this lie and who should get punished accordingly?

 

Martin Whitmarsh half hinted his own head may roll if necessary to head off further sanctions.

The Mercedes board can't be too pleased with the notoriety either. Senior management turn over may be required by Mercedes in a bid for a clean slate.

 

I think this is where the divide exists on the board and why past events are brought up. When MS parked his Ferrari at Rascasse, all of the Schuey haters came out of the woodwork to say he should be banned for the season for lying and cheating. Most of us (me included) said 'rubbish', that these sort of tactics have always been a part of the sport (citing Senna and his antics at that time). And it has...there are some blatantly overt examples and tons of subtle ones. Why wasn't Honda tossed out of the series a couple of years back when it was discovered they had a secret fuel tank on their car? That was outright cheating and deception, yet they received a 1-race suspension. In this case, the team tried to out-smart itself and cocked everything up. For the record, though, remember that Lewis did say that the team asked him to let Trulli past right after the race so I do believe he was instructed to give a different story.

Back to one of my other points though, F1 lies and deceives the fans yet we want to hold the drivers to a higher standard?

Something doesn't calculate there...

 

Some things can not be found out before the podium. Cheaters should always be penalized. (NOT saying Lewis cheated--but your quote above uses the word "cheat.")

 

If you're looking for logic find another sport
The past is another country, just because an inequity was committed it need not be repeated.
The worst consequence of all this might just be the return of Ron Dennis who I'm sure is feeling like Mike Corleone in Godfather III.

 

Yes - He admitted it in press conference documented above.

According to Mclaren, Davey Ryan. Also documented in a press conference.

In motorsport, it doesn't get any more serious than lying to the stewards - They'll forgive you an illegal car, fuel etc - Slapped wrist and "don't do it again - we're watching you". BUT, you NEVER, EVER lie to the stewards.

Nothing - As noted above, this is not Mad Max's bailiwick.

According to Mcl, Davey Ryan, who's been sent home and some reports say has already resigned.

Punishment? - What they've already done is sufficient IMO - LH is "disgraced", it cost 'em a bunch of points and is obviously a huge black eye. Exclude 'em from the championship - Come on!

As I postulated above, someone (Davey being the 30 year experienced "suspect" and fall guy) did indeed tell Lewis to lie to the stewards - He was seemingly trying to avoid a repeat of last years similar disaster (In which he was also involved) - And screwed up - In the "heat of the moment" I'm sure he thought he was doing the right thing in trying to "protect" Lewis from a repeat.

Cheers,
Ian

 

It did hurt to have LH win last year, but I give him is props.

As for this incident, we all know that things happen at light speed in F-1, even when things seem to slow down. I don't know how these guys drive at 170 MPH and adjust the brake bias, while holding the microphone button, while reading messages, while drinking water--and all. When a safety car comes out, you get messages on screen and in your ear, you make adjustments, and you have to keep your mind on your speed, warm tires and not running into the back of someone.

After a race, I am sure a lot of things get out of sequence.

Reinstating Jarno was OK, but relegating LH was completely un-called-for. (And I'm no LH fan.)

 

I don't know the history to which your first statement is directed, but I would like to again say that I, like yourself, am a huge Lewis Hamilton fan and pull for MCL as much as possible. I was very happy with the outcome last season....but the truth is the truth. Lying to the stewards is unacceptable, no matter what my allegiances are. I can't speak to LH's credibility being shot for a long time but it has certainly been damaged significantly; that fact is why I pointed out his age.

 

Yep, that really is a fair comment and believe me one I have alot of respect for..

 

LOL

So the possibility that it's actually true never entered your mind?

Do you honestly believe McLaren just picked some random person (with 30yrs with the team) to toss under the bus?

 

Being the most "ethical team in motorsports", I would think that they probably drew straws?

 

Read my post below, I read an article that was later revised and misleading in its initial form, where it only said that he was the guy to talk with Hamilton over the radio, nothing else

 

Using that logic, Ferrari would only be getting over their ban next year... the 3 year ban they got when Schumacher lied about Rascasse. And since Schumis lie was much worse and the incident that led to the lie was worse, maybe Ferrari ought to have gotten a 4 year ban? Or 5?

Speaking of bans for having other teams data, well, Toyota will be getting over their ban in 2011 for having thousands upon thousands of pages detailing the Ferrari (clearly they are still using Ferrari engineering on their current cars). Also, Renault will be eligible to race again in 2012 after they serve out their 3 year ban for having 2 CD's full of McLaren engineering drawings.

Ok, so for 2009, that means Ferrari is an illegitimate contender, as if McLaren, as is Toyota, as is Renault.

Wow, pretty short field there!

Come to think of it, Honda had the fuel tank fiasco (and the FIA said they lied about that too). Honda = Brawn, and if they get a 3 year ban for that, then it means Brawn is actually illegitimate for this season too.

Damn, down to 5 teams. Let's hope nothing else comes out or we may just have to award the WDC to Force India right now!



.....or, maybe this sort of stuff happens all the time in F1 and isn't as big a transgression as it's being made out to be?

And before the Ferrari fluffers get too excited, I was one of Schumachers most staunch supporters after what happened at Rascasse. It's racing... stuff happens, people push the envelope. Banning people for stuff like this is like banning football players for a season because they intentionally broke the rules and caused someone else to fall or miss a goal. It happens all the time.

Seems to me fair punishment has been served, and then some.

 

Being the most ethical team in motorsport is like being the most prudish girl in a whorehouse

 

Or I could almost see them asking MCL to go elsewhere for an engine, if Brawn should keep looking strong.

Come to think of it, could fear of the Mercedes board have been partially behind the "no appeal, no comment" reaction and then the sacking of Ryan?

 

LH credibility make have taken a hit I really don't care for the politic's, I remember a bit back on here he was getting flogged because he told his boss RD to swivel, then the same folk turn on him because he towed the party line and didn't disobey an order to lie. However that's his mistake not defying his employer, in this case, hence the hypocrisy, also totally bashing LH relishing in the fact he was lying then at the end of the post, stating enough bashing of Lewis because I deem so!! complete and utter hypocrisy again.

I really I'am a fan of Lewis on the track, I really dont give a rats what he does off track apparently alot on here do.

No-way has his rep been damaged in regards to his racing quite the opposite in Aus, and that's all that matter's to me, the rest can grasp at straws.

 

Gotcha, my bad.

I honestly and truly think that most teams do try to act in a correct manner and are constantly fighting the battle between getting an advantage over their rivals and toeing the line.

IMO the FIA has gone too far in the direction of penalties and such. Hamilton is not the only example (not in this case, anyway), but Vettel too. It seems the FIA is pushing to achieve the impossible... hard racing but with no incidents. Schumacher and Alonso had the bright spotlight of the FIA shining on them also in 06.

Sometimes, a hands-off approach is the best approach. Lewis deserved the DQ for fibbing to the stewards, but it seems an entirely appropriate response, maybe slightly harsh. Multi-season bans and multi-race bans? Crazy talk.

 

I actually thought about that, too. Or maybe they'll make Brawn their #1 team. There have been rumors since last season that Mercedes is considering to sell their McLaren shares due to several (internal) reasons.

 

True - almost scary true. These are not the times to be pissing off your sponsors or your major partnerships. Especially when we may be seeing a less expensive real alternative for a platform developing.

 

Agree, but we're not talking about a racing incident here, we're talking about lying to the Stewards. Imagine there's an accident where someone gets injured and the involved teams intentionally provide wrong data and false statements - a ban of multiple races/seasons is the appropriate response for such behaviour. Of course in this case, it was a minor infraction with no serious harm done and banning him from several races or whatever would be over the top, but trying to mess around with the Stewards has to result in serious penalties.

 

But if the above is true (and I don't necessarily think it's not), then again, what about Schumi at Rascasse? A blatant lie to the stewards and to the FIA. The penalty? Sent to the back of the grid. Seems fair to me.

Renault certainly lied in the press about the extent of McLaren data they had, and they lied in their original statements to the FIA (who knows if more detail was given behind closed doors). Honda lied about the fuel tank thing... when first questioned they gave one account of it's purpose but then upon further complaints by other teams, they investigated more and found it held extra fuel illegally.

I think the closest example has to be MS at Rascasse... he did something wrong on track, lied about it, was caught lying, and his quali time was nullified. I think that was appropriate. Seems like McLarens penalty is appropriate too, although I'd say it's harsher than MS's.

The irony is that Trulli did indeed take the position back wrongfully. Why did the team so quickly advise Lewis to let it go? Pure speculation, but I'll wager it has something to do with penalties they got last year (Lewis passing Kimi, specifically).

I think Lewis and McLaren have been fairly punished. Too bad Ryan is apparently out, that guy engineered the 1976 McLaren. All over a single point for a lie about a pass that shouldn't have taken place anyway.

Oh well, onwards and upwards.

 

I didn't say the DQ for him wasn't appropriate! As I said, a minor infraction, and disqualifying him for that race is the appropriate penalty.