Spot on. With Mad Max being an attorney, all the closed sessions of the FOCA, FIA, Stewards meetings, on and on the whole sport is starting to resemble Kangaroo court. The sport is being governed into the ground. Team Attorney(s, firm ? ) will soon be the most important position . Because of the rain shortened race I got to see a full FIM motorcycle race taped on the recorder. Pretty cool. If F1 doesn't clean up its act I may stray.
Another great post Mike. I think they have fiddled with the rules enough this year to ensure a competitive field. Let them race now. And BTW; whats up with the Safety Car coming out just as Button exits the pits ? Race control "controlling" the results = lying in effect.
+1 I am amazed by some of the Hambone lovers who keep overlooking that statement and try to blame everyone else but the person who lied, even after Hambone admitted to it. That speaks volumns about their integrity.
Nobody is disputing that a punishment was in order for lying, however the harm that was done to Trulli was a result of the FIA meddling. The original penalty for Trulli should have been to demote him to 4th place. He DID pass Lewis when he shouldn't have, likely because McLaren were too paranoid to do anything other than let him have the spot... after this came to light, they should have just demoted him to 4th and put Lewis in 3rd. And regardless of the outcome, they should do a better job of having all the information in front of them before they have a hearing.
Nobody is trying to absolve Hamilton of blame - if you think so then perhaps you just hate the guy and anything that isn't critical of him you see as 'support'? Who knows. I don't think discussing a big event in recent F1 history speaks to integrity at all.... it certainly speaks to integrity a lot less than the previous stuff we read about Lewis. There was even a guy who got banned for making racist comments about Hamilton. That's infinitely worse and really does speak to character and integrity.
Bravo to SRT Mike for an excellent summary of the relative seriousness of the "offense". Hamilton told his story - the stewards didn't believe him, he was penalized. Should be end of story. When a certain driver in 1997 deliberately drove into his main title competitor at the last race of the season, he lied to the stewards, his team backed up the lie - the telemetry and video proved the driver and team lied, the driver was punished. Was his team punished? Quite the opposite, they were allowed to keep the Constructors points. When a certain driver deliberately parked his car at Rascasse on the last lap of qualifying, did he admit the deed to the stewards or lie about it? Did his team admit it was deliberate or did they lie about it? The telemetry proved it was a deliberate parking job, the driver was punished, but the team was not separately punished. Justice in those cases, and most others, was done adequately, whether the driver fessed up or not. Not since Stirling Moss has a driver volunteered information that hurt his own case. Why the FIA expects nothing but the truth now is bizarre - that's why they have radio conversation records and telemetry!
I'm not a big McLaren fan... but I think the whole thing is a load of crap.... who cares if you slowed up and made the guy behind pass you under a safety car... thats part of the game... you need to be on your game all the time...If Hamilton lied blatently to the stewards then I guess he has to called to account, but really the whole thing is pointless to me... Hamilton tricked a guy into doing something that he should not have done... plain and simple.
Actually, his team told him to let Trulli pass, which was against LH's wishes. The problem only developed when McMerc changed the story in an attempt to protect a potential 3rd place finish. (which I still can't figure out why...at worst, they finish 4th, at best Trulli gets a penalty. Was a single point worth all of this?)
...this situation is ridiculous. Everyone in this sport has/will cheat at some point in time. Everyone gets caught once in a while. The real issue here is the seeming pathological desire to heavily punish McLaren. As much as McLaren has a seeming gene defect that makes them do stupid things on a regular basis, so the FIA seems to have a viceral hatred of all things McLaren. In case no one noticed, this event did not result in someone being pushed off the track or crashed into, with a resulting permanent loss of opportunity. The issue was resolved, with points taken away and places re-awarded to the justified party. McLaren has already suffered punishment for their transgression. Certain people on this forum who want at public hanging of LH/RD/MW etal are losing all sense of perspective. All this piling on by the FIA will accomplish is to see Mercedes leave the sport in disgust. There, that will really help F1 won't it? Some of you on this forum should realise that you have lost your objectiveness. Many of you seem to find all sorts of justification for Ferrari's outrages, but if it involves the hated McLaren...well, off with their heads! This continuing public flogging of McLaren will harm this sport irreparably.
Ron, guess I'm an old school race fan. While I agree completely with you that lying to officials is a bad thing, the part I find most offensive is leaving poor old Jarno (who will win at least one race this year) out to hang for a penalty without stepping up, however, we all know everything is recorded anyway. Why bother to ask Mclaren or Toyota what happened, shouldn't the officials figure it out for themselves and MAKE A CALL? It isn't as though they didn't have the time during the race to assess what happened. McHam having egg (no puns, I swear) on his face is fine by me, but I can't get around the fact he had an honest and decent finish in a car that was the modern day equivalent of a Zakspeed. What he or his team said after the race may be wrong, but I still want the correct results to be recorded and I continue to believe FIA should have an independent audit of their own officiating before assessing penalties due to their own shortcomings. Guess you didn't agree with severity of my penalty (Pinocchio decal on #1 for the entire season) but to be honest, I'd be content with another appearance of 'Apollo' at the Turkish to make things right....
Mclaren are at fault. For me, the issue is how much more bad press do they want until they get themselves together. If it was FERRARI I WOULD be even more outraged because the potential of the punishment could include exclusion. It would be worse for me if it was my team. The point is lying and the CONSPIRACY TO DECIEVE. Mclaren got caught and gets hammered. Rightfully so and it would actually be worse if it was FERRARI. The rest of the paddock and myself would be screaming. I want Ferrari to win but not if they are doing what Mclaren have done here. Like last year with LH at Spa. Other drivers were not on his side. Simple fact is if you cut a chicane you may get a penalty. No big deal to the other drivers as thats what could happen if you get caught. LH got caught then and the team along with him this time. SO who's fault is that? I dont think anyone here needs me to spell it out. Ferrari and how others would react is not the issue at all. It doesnt involve them. Not this time.
....doesn't involve 'them' this time...no of course not, if it involved Ferrari there would have been the usual meaningless slap on the wrist instead of the current spanish inquisition. Everyone acknowledges that McLaren/LH screwed up. The real issue is the utter demonizing of them by the FIA. The ruthlessness of the pursuit will leave F1 with a damaged core. The really comical part of this is the FIA's accusation of McLaren 'bringing the sport into disrepute'...! The abominations caused the past few seasons by the FIA stewards, Max 'spanky' Mosley and the complete favouritism shown towards Ferrari are quickly making this sport a joke, and are themselves the real examples of disrepute. DF...what would you consider a 'fair' punishment....(..I suppose the loss of all points in the race wasn't 'good enough' for the die hard Scuderia fans...?). Why don't we just ban McLaren for life...then Ferrari can probably win with the latest joke of a management and No 1 driver. I predict that the current course will lead to Mercedes leaving F1, and if you can't see the danger to the sport in that.....
In this day and age of technology, how on earth did it take the stewards to decide anything, even the commentators on the race noticed that something was wrong, but how can you let a guy get up on the podium and enjoy all the adulation then take it away from him. Ok Hami made a big mistake but lets move on this is only the second race for f#*k sake. I think the racing personaaly so far has been great and i think its fantastic that we dont have the normal teams cruising away with it, this makes it more exiting as we know the likes of Ferrari and Mclaren will come back.
Uh, he only started to lie AFTER the ceremony? As said countless times before: The punishment wasn't because switching places with Trulli was right or wrong, it was because he LIED about it to the Stewards.
Yep, really at this point it's become the usual FIA/Steward circus, which is getting really old because if I want to watch a circus, I'll tune into one, not F1. The whole thing is become a Soap On a Rope Opera, and the only people that enjoy that are Bernie and Max. Max, especially.
Race bans possible for McLaren - Bernie Apr.8 (GMM) It is possible McLaren will be banned from a number of races should the World Motor Sport Council take a dim view of the 'lie-gate' scandal at the April 29 meeting. Bernie Ecclestone told the UK newspaper Express that the serious charge of lying to stewards and bringing the sport into disrepute is worsened by McLaren's recent trouble over espionage. "It is never good for anyone if you are back in court quickly for something similar," the F1 chief executive said. The FIA body has essentially unlimited powers: from race bans, total exclusion from the championship, to draconian financial penalties, like the $100m fine levied against McLaren in 2007 for spying. Ecclestone admitted that McLaren figures lying to the stewards to have Jarno Trulli penalised amounted to "fraud". "There are many options open if the charge sticks and it would be a terrible thing if any team were banned from races. But it could happen," he said. In 2005, BAR-Honda was banned for two races for fielding a trick fuel tank. Ooops!
According to the FIA press release Hamilton was interviewed more than once and was given a chance to alter his initial account. He stuck to the team story line. If this is so I don't see how the FIA could not proceed as they have. Sorry if I did it again Mike
And as said before - was Schumacher punished for lying about deliberately hitting Villeneuve, or for lying about deliberately parking at Rascasse? If you think Schumacher fessed up before the stewards, think again - he lied about his actions in both cases, Ferrari lied to back him up, and the telemetry and video proved that Schumacher and Ferrari were lying. Schumacher was punished for the on-track transgressions then - but NOT for lying, although there was absolutely no doubt that he lied to the stewards. Why no outrage about Schumacher's fibbing at the time?
