The obvious example, but there are many others, is the one you cited: Plus, the Paper Towels (love 'em btw!) took all of '08 building a car to the *new* specifications - Next years cars will be developments of this years, not totally new designs - They've got to develop this POS to have any idea of where to go next year IMHO - *WAY* too early to throw it all away - Let's be patient and see where we are after Spain. Cheers, Ian
You haven't really answered my question. In the 1982 season Ferrari had the best car, this year they don't. So you can't use that as an example of hope. We are however in wild agreement that they have to develop the POS this year to make it competitive for next year. No argument there. When I say throw in the towel, I don't mean to go home. But to use the rest of the season to develop the 2010 car. But quit dreaming about a title chase this year and don't stone a driver for being realistic.
I've been in enough races to know that the best car/driver doesn't always win. Often, there are events beyond one's control that influence the outcome. I'm not saying that the odds are good if you don't have the best equipment package. But, then, why should the back-of-the-pack teams even show up? CW
The back marker teams are in F1 for a different reason: They're in there to make a living, which they obviously do. Or because they love racing. Ferrari is in it to win the championship, which they won't this year. Ferrari shouldn't focus on winning any races this year, but on developing the car for 2010. Which for the Chinese GP would have meant to continue to use KERS. Only if you test it and accept the risk of failure will you gain the knowledge to develop it further.
There's a saying in sports: "That's why they play the game." What it means is that if you look at the pre-event odds, statistics, roster, time charts or whatever, there would be a favorite. However, in ALL sports, there is an element of luck. Equipment matters. Strategy matters. Luck matters. Otherwise, why not just hand over the trophy before they even run a race? If you're depending on luck, though, it's long odds. However, until there is no statistical chance that either KR or FM can win, they need to earn their salaries. And, even then, they need to make as good a showing as possible. Anything less is lackluster and unworthy of PROFESSIONAL drivers. CW
I believe Kimi's words here. Especially after last year, I'm sure he'd like to prove himself. And Hamilton definitely must resent being a midfielder this year. These guys aren't asleep at the wheel------it's just that things have changed. F1 is survival of the fittest, and you're only as good as your last race.
Yes, I maintain it. Massa was doing (relatively) fine, and Raikkonen said he had a few problems and was not at 100%. And we still haven´t seen the new diffusor. As I´ve said, it´s not championship winning material, but we need to finish in a decent position in the WCC to get more money for 2010, so I think they still had to work in this car, at least till mid-season.
I cant believe what im reading from many in here. There is no other sport in the world where a player would declare hopelessness in the first period, first quarter, or the first half. In other sports when a player does that it effects the whole team. Many of you are not looking at the big picture here. There are millions of Ferrari fans out there that will not give up hope untill at least the second half of the season. Tickets for many of the races are not sold out. We all know that when Ferrari does bad that ticket sales and advertising revenue goes down. The fact the Kimi is talking this way is not good for the sport, the team or the fans. Anyone on this board that thinks Kimi coming out and saying what he did publicly is a good thing really does not wear their love for Ferrari on their sleeve. Combine what Kimi said with all the crap that has gone on and I see F1 turning into a joke very fast. Yes there is competative racing out there right now and the cars that are winning are only doing so because of the change in rules period. Some in here say give it up now and work on next years car.....How? when the rules might change again for next season.
This "sport" largely depends on how well you do your homework over the winter. Ferrari hasn't and there is little chance of catching up with no testing allowed. You can't compare this to a player having a bad day. Quite the opposite: I admire Kimi for being honest. As for the fair weather fans who will only come to a race if Ferrari has a chance at winning. They can go swivel. I have no use for people like that. Simple: Keep running KERS no matter what. Unlike Shanghai where they didn't use it. KERS will be mandatory next year, so every testing kilometer with it counts.
Remember Senna in Donnington in the rain in the inferior McLaren? Now that is what champions are made of! Harry
Which is precisely why I'm saying that the team should hire Vettel. Remember Vettel in Monza in the rain in the inferior Toro Rosso? Now that is what champions are made of!
I think we're all in agreement that for whatever reason, KR isn't getting the job done. Yet he's paid like he's won the last two WDC's. And, last season he was out-driven by his teammate who makes far less than he does. That's embarrassing and frustrating, and KR always has an excuse. Only the team knows for real what's going on. But, the job of the driver is to get the best out of the car. Perhaps that's something that KR isn't good at. But, what we're all saying (perhaps in different ways) is that the driver matters. Your post proves the point. If you have an uninspired driver who's already thrown in the towel, then they should find a new, inspired driver (like Vettel, for instance, as you suggest). However, in this same post, you're also undercutting your own argument about the importance of the equipment. You are saying that inferior equipment can get good results with an inspired driver. CW
We are somewhat saying the same thing. Inferior equipment in talented hands can get the job done, yes. Kimi is talented, but not terribly motivated. Agreed. So yes, a highly motivated Kimi could bring better results from the Ferrari. I'm not arguing that. My point is: - Even a highly motivated Kimi will not win the title with this Ferrari. An occasional podium, maybe even a victory, but not the title. - Kimi is realistic and honest when he says that this car is a POS. That's not throwing in the towel, that's just how adults talk. Massa is (as always) in happy cheer leader mode. PS: I'm a huge Kimi fan, but I also think it is time for him to move on. As for Massa: Well, I never wanted him on the team in the first place.
Agreed. But, it's a funny thing. When Eddie "the mouth" Irvine was realistic and honest, it was sort of amusing. When KR does it, he comes across as disinterested. That may be the Finn in him. And, you're right: that is how adults talk. In private and in confidence. You generally don't tip your hand, and one tries to keep their cards close to their vest. Especially in anything as competitive as F1. Perhaps there's nothing to hide, though. The other teams have seen the results. Also, as posted earlier, there's an entire team at work on this. What effect does it have on the rank and file when the number 1 driver is telling you the season's over? He can be realistic AND positive, I think. KR's personality isn't the most animated, and he comes across as distant and disengaged. That's great when you're winning, but when you're not... KR should definitely move on. He's made a bleedin' fortune from his stint with Ferrari, which has been lackluster at best for the past two years. At some point, heads have to roll. Might as well start with the guy in the seat getting paid $50MM. CW
You folks still haven't woken up to the NWO. There will NOT be Another Schumi driving Another Brawn-engineered car for Another Todt-managed operation at Ferrari. And that is not necessarily a bad thing in the bigger scheme of things...
Or maybe the aero package on the Newey car is simply superior in the rain. Webber did come in 2nd. Button is well known to be one of the very best in the rain and he was hardly lacking motivation to be going for a third win in a row. No doubt Vettel is superb in the rain but the Newey car was simply the fastest on the track by a wide margin
Andeas your pulling a Ted. Where did I compare what Kimi said to a player having a bad day? Im talking TEAM here. What I said is very simple. If a team member sees the team struggling, he does not shoot his mouth off telling the world that the team stinks. You keep saying that you admire Kimi being honest. Obama was being honest in the first few weeks of his tenure and he was told to get more optimistic in his briefings becuase it was only making things worse. I would like to see if you had a company competing with others in the same field and then one of your "lead" employee tells the media that your product cannot compete. Would you "admire" him or fire him? If the "fair weather fans" leave the sport(show) it will be toast. Im not just talking fair weather fans here. Im talking hard core that are already fed up with all the BS in F1 as well as Ferrari. As for the KERS....Maybe it wont be around next year and Ferrari knows it. Maybe the parameters will change and they are waiting to see what gives with the KERS. The main reason for Ferrari dumping the KERS right now is to try and make up some ground or at least make it appear that they are doing something which is being completely negated by Kimi's running off at the mouth. I can tell you right now the Kimi will not be with Ferrari next year and it wont be his choice. They are fed up with him and have been for a while. He is simply an average driver and when an average driver throws in the towel after 2 races then hes heading out the door and he may be out the door before the end of this season. It is one thing being a fanatic fair weather Ferrari fan but it is another to be one that continually shows a dislike of everything Ferrari. Who do you think Im talking about Andreas?
No, the Scuderia won't have that mixture again. And, it was a great one. That said, it doesn't change the argument one bit. I'm not saying bring back Schumi/Todt/Brawn. I'm saying KR may need to go. There are up and comers available who might do better, because they're hungrier. For a LOT less. CW
i truly hate this defeatis attitude.I want to retain our titles and these punks are hanging there heads.Stefano is the first pansy to go
An average driver who is a WDC and almost won it 2 times previously...coming within only 2 points of MS. Kimi is the FASTEST driver in F1 and has been for years, has numerous races where he has started from middle to near the back of the grid and won the race...including Japan '05 which is regarded as one of the best races of the last decade. Ferrari are so fed up with him that they keep paying him 50mil a year. Verry funny stuff Franco. Hold on a minute...if kimi's an average driver then what does that make Massa? By your reasoning it seems that Ferrari need to get rid of Massa not Kimi. I never took what Kimi said as giving up, quitting or unmotivating. Like MANY others, I took what Kimi said as simple honesty...something he has consistently been throughout his career. That is something that I would want in my top employee. IMO, Ferrari needs to get their act together very quickly and I think they will. You don't have as many WDC and WCC as Ferrari and not know how to get back to winning when your down. I also think that both drivers are frustrated with the team...one of them just honest about it and the other is too scared to admit it because of what the team and others might think.
But you won't know what the drivers can do because the car is such a POS. Kimi has certainly been unimpressive but it is not clear to me at all how much of that is his own doing. It is safe to say he deserves some of the blame but he is really the target of those who expected him to be the new Schumi. He isn't. And he isn't just because of what he has or hasn't done but primarily because the Ferrari F1 Team has gradually gone up the sh*t creek since Todt left. Schumi's unprecedented success in F1 had many ingredients besides the man himself, and the roles played by Todt, Brawn and others are often way overlooked. Therefore I am quite certain that a "New Schumi" will not happen for Ferrari anytime soon. And I think that Luca knows it too.
