Mondial convertible top instructions + photos | FerrariChat

Mondial convertible top instructions + photos

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by JF308, Sep 21, 2008.

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  1. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2007
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    John Feeney
    #1 JF308, Sep 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    GREAT ORIGINAL POST BY BluTan87Mondi.

    I always refer to the thread below just as a reminder what to do, and what not to do....but I never find any photos. So, here goes. The original thread (to give credit to the original poster) supplemented with some photos, and a few helpful hints about my approach. Not to say that it is the only or best way -- it just works for me -- and I've not broken a toggle yet! (I do have a broken one in the original parts collection from the prior owner, however).

    My additions in CAPS.

    Originally Posted by BluTan87Mondi View Post
    (Info from various owners and mechanics)

    1. When garaged, put the top up to keep the materials from creasing. (I AGREE, BUT ALSO SEE POINT #2. :)

    2. Don't keep the top up for long periods of time since some of the material may stick to the frame and could cause ripping.

    3. When folding the top down, don't force it... it should never feel that way. (IF YOU FORCE IT, IT WILL TEAR. IT PROBABLY MEANS THAT SOMETHING IS CAUGHT, SO GO VERY SLOWLY)

    4. The sequence to folding down the top is, in order is:
    a) wind all the windows down,
    b) un-buckle the top from the window frame,
    c) wind back the two guide pins at the buckles as far as they will go to make it easier to push the top up. (ON MY CAR THE THUMBSCREWS ARE TURNED CLOCKWISE TOWARD THE PASSENGER SIDE, AND THIS "RETRACTS" THE GUIDE PINS).
    d) yes, the first to push UP AND ever so slightly back on the top rail that the buckles are fastened to so as to clear the guide pins. (YOU MAY WANT TO RAISE THE SECOND BAR WITH THE CURVED FINGER HOLD AS YOU PUSH THE FRONT UP AND BACK).
    e) once you have cleared the guide pins from the top of the windshield, fasten the buckles down using the leather straps that snap into place (catching the buckles on the top of the windshield on the way down is the #1 way to break the small arms on the buckles ($450+ part to replace- more on that later).
    f) once you have pushed the top up, stand next to the car and smoothly push the top back while keeping the 2nd bar vertical. (THIS IS THE HINGED BAR WITH THE CURVED FINGER HOLD)
    g) as the top folds backward, note how the sides fold neatly into the middle and that there is no material being caught in the joints
    h) if it doesn't go all the way down (normal) look for the elbow closest to the rear windshield that has probably caught on the rear deck or recessed cup. If so gently lift up on the elbow to release (check for the elbow on the other side of the car also), this should let the top fold all the way down to its lowest point,
    HH) I WOULD ADD HERE THAT THE REARMOST BAR SHOULD BE 'UNDER' THE PLASTIC REAR WINDOW, OR BETTER SAID, ALWAYS FOLD THE PLASTIC WINDOW BACK BUT OVER THE REAR BAR. AT LEAST THIS IS WHAT I DO TO GET THE TIGHTEST FOLD AT FULL CLOSURE. SEE PHOTO.

    QUESTION: SINCE MY TOP IS ORIGINAL, AND THAT REAR BAR IS NOT GLUED TO THE TOP. NOT SURE IF THIS IS AS DESIGNED, OR JUST THE RESULT OF 20 YRS OF USE...BUT THAT IS WHY I FOLD IT UNDER, AND THE WINDOW OVER.

    DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANOTHER METHOD?

    g) make sure to fold the rear windshield over the sides (that have collapsed into the middle) but under the front bar (that has the buckles), this will keep the the whole package slim and make the boot cover install super easy.

    h) when rolling the windows up, the glass tends to catch against the material. Help the window motors by gently pulling up on the glass as it comes up... if necessary, open the doors slightly if the glass doesn't go all the way up.

    On the boot cover, leather or canvas: make sure to periodically inspect the interior collar that winds on to the outer pull knob. The inner collars can unwind over time and result in the combo coming apart, usually at high speed usually when you least want to pull over. Never mind the money to replace the parts, it's the flapping that can cause damage to your paint job. The collars wind on like a golf spike. A split ring plier is the tool to use to check the collars. Also when the boot cover is on, make sure to pull up on the material at the knobs to make sure that the knobs are seated on the post under the material. Again, you don't want those knobs slapping agains your paint at speed.

    5. Putting the top up:
    a) pull at a 45 deg angle on the middle strap at the middle of the first bar SMOOTHLY making sure that nothing seems like its caught, as the first bar nears the top of the windshield, the first bar will move downward,
    b) to get the guide pins back in place to buckle, extend the pins all the way by winding down on the adjustment knobs (the opposite of when putting the top down) THIS IS MOST PROBABLY COUNTER CLOCKWISE TOWARD THE DRIVER SIDE TO FULLY EXTEND THE GUIDE PINS. (SEE PHOTO)
    c) guide both pins into their slots and buckle only one side at a time. YOU DONT WANT TOO MUCH TENSION ON THE LATCH ASSEMBLY. I GO VERY SLOWLY, AND EVEN PULL THE WINDOW PILLAR FORWARD SLIGHTLY TO RELIEVE THE PRESSURE A BIT. I THINK THAT THIS IS FAILURE REASON NUMBER 2 FOR THE U BRACKET ON THE LATCH BREAKING. After both sides have been buckled, unbuckle each side and wind the guide pins back until the top is snug and the pins are as retracted as they will go. (THIS MAY VERY WELL BE A SIDE TO SIDE ITERATIVE PROCESS. AT LEAST IT IS FOR ME. I RETRACT THE GUIDE PINS ABOUT HALF WAY, THEN BACK TO THE OTHER SIDE, REPEAT, THEN BACK TO THE OTHER SIDE FOR THE FULL RETRACTION. THIS WILL TIGHTEN THE TOP CLOSER TO THE WINDSHIELD. SEE PHOTOS. THE FIRST 'GAP' IS WITH THE PINS FULLY EXTENDED. THE SECOND IS WITH THEM RETRACTED AFTER THE MULTIPLE ITERATIONS.

    I KNOW SEVERAL OWNERS WHO SEEK TO FIND THAT PERFECT MIDDLE GROUND (HALF EXTENDED/HALF RETRACTED PINS, AND A REASONABLE GAP TO THE WINDSHIELD). THE ONLY PROBLE WITH THIS APPROACH, IMO, IS THAT IT DOES CAUSE A BIT MORE STRESS ON THE LATCH ASSEMBLY WHEN CLOSING.

    I THINK THE KEY IS THE SLOW, METHODICAL, ITERATIVE APPROACH WITH THE LATCHES AND GUIDE PINS.

    Maintenance:
    Wash the top as often as you do the car. I use the same Boar's hair brush (Griotsgarage.com) as I do for the rest of the car. Make sure it's dry before you fold it down (it dry's quickly).

    I USE RAGGTOP CLEANER AND THEN PROTECTANT. DOES A WONDERFUL JOB ON MAKING THE TOP LOOK GREAT.


    Lubricate the joints (clean off the excess to avoid staining the inside of the top). Check the C-clips and pins periodically.

    That's it. It might seem like a lot, but with practice the whole show doesn't take more than 5 minutes, enough time for the car to warm up.

    If you want to drive top down but with all the windows up, you'll have to pull slightly inward the top frame to clear the path for the rear windows to come up. (ABSOLUTELY. MOST REAR WINDOWS WILL GET SLOW OR STOP IF THEY ARE PRESSING FULLY AGAINST THE FRAME IN THE REAR.).

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/new...ly&p=135613058
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  2. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #2 davebdave, Sep 22, 2008
    The only thing I do different is I fold the vinyl window into the most foward crease, minimising the bend in the window. I agree, the top is not so difficult, you just have to go slow and enjoy it.
    Dave
     
  3. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

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    #3 JF308, Sep 22, 2008
    Is your rear most bar affixed to the top? or loose? See the photo?
     
  4. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #4 davebdave, Sep 22, 2008

    The rear bar is not attached to the top canvas, only the first two bars are.
    Dave
     
  5. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

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    #5 JF308, Sep 22, 2008
    Good to know. Mine is the same, now I know that its as designed.

    Has anyone re-glued their canvas top to the first or second bar where its come a bit loose? (mine is partially detached on the second bar).

    Fearful to just use any glue, in case it deteriorates the canvas, so, I've left as is.....Suggestions? Gorilla Glue, ??
     
  6. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #6 davebdave, Sep 22, 2008
    We replaced the entire top. I found a spray glue at Advanced auto that worked pretty well for the bars. The have two types, one permanent and one removable for carpets. Just mask off the area spray and reattach. You could also use a brush and rubberized contact cement.

    Do not use gorilla Glue because it is not flexible when dry and expands like crazy if you use too much.

    Dave
     
  7. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    #7 ronfrohock, Sep 22, 2008
    Just to remind fellow Mondial Cab owners, I still have some toggles (the U shaped piece that always breaks) available.
    Just pm me.
    Thanks
    - Ron Frohock
     
  8. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    #8 ronfrohock, Sep 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    of the toggle. Its the U Shaped piece which is the part that breaks. This picture shows the toggle before it was black passivated. One assemblesd and one seperate.
    Thanks
    Ron Frohock
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  9. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

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    #9 JF308, Sep 22, 2008
    I think I've seen these advertised before, Ron. Can you remind me of the pricing? and are they for a pair of U-shaped toggles? Might be cheap insurance.

    I have one of the original toggles (broken) in my parts collection, so p.o. has been there, done that.

    J.
     
  10. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    #10 ronfrohock, Sep 22, 2008
    John,
    I started to make these when I broke my toggles and was disappointed to find that you had to buy a new clamp assembly for the cost of $400-$450.00, if you could find one and then it would only break again.

    My toggle is made using high strength Stainless Steel, finished with a black passivate. Other (local) Mondial owners saw them and requested that I make more for them. I invested in tooling and made about thirty pair. I provide all of the hardware, pins and e-clips needed and they are easy to install.
    I am offering them for sale for $85.00 each plus shipping, which is about $2.00 for USPS to all fifty states. This cost does not represent a profit for me; I am only trying to re-coup my tooling cost and did this out of frustration and desire to help fellow Mondial owners with a good fix to a common problem.

    Please keep in mind that I am not offering the entire assembly, just the U shaped toggle which is silver in the attached picture.

    I have sold a number of them to fellow FChatters and everyone has been pleased.

    Let me know if I can help.

    Thanks
    - Ron Frohock
     
  11. Shark49

    Shark49 Formula Junior

    Mar 31, 2005
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    #11 Shark49, Sep 22, 2008
    These things are great but man what I need is a new rubber seal but its a fortune!
     
  12. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #12 davebdave, Sep 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This thread reminded me that I had a new toggle from Ron that I hadn't installed. It took me less than half an hour and that was without the instructions (Lost them right away).

    About a year ago Ferrari Guru Gianluca helped me replace the top. At the time we noticed that the left latch arm (toggle) was broken, so Luca fashioned one in his machine shop. Recently, when I saw Ron had a few toggles left I ordered one for when the right side eventually broke. Turns out it was broken and I didn't even know it. Ron's works perfectly as does Luca's. Here is Ron's installed.

    Dave

    P.S. If you have a Mondial Cab then you need these new toggles!! The latch pictured is only 1.5 years old.
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  13. chuckou

    chuckou Rookie

    Sep 29, 2008
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    Chicago, IL
    #13 chuckou, Apr 20, 2009
    Dave

    I see that you have replaced the convertable top. Just wondering how did back of top(the U shape part that is attached by the engine lid) came off the body shell. Does it just snap off?? Thinking replaceing the top myself. Thanks for helping

    Charles
     
  14. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #14 davebdave, Apr 20, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
    Hi Charles,

    The top is clamped from the inside with sheet metal brackets and screws.
    the outside edges along the fenders just tuck under a metal fold on the fender.
    At the most rearward tips there are small metal forms in the top (we had to swap these to the new top) that are held by the tenax fastener.

    Here is a picture thread I started when FChatter Gianluca and I replaced the top...

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176744

    The top was from rich and famous. It fits pretty well but is a little loose in the buttresses. The top material and workmanship is excellent.
    Replacing the top is not a bad job to DIY and it will allow you to get a good look at problem areas in your car if there are any.
    The hardest part (and most critical for a proper seal) is gluing the front of the top to the front bar. You really have to stretch it to line it up properly.
    Let me know if you have any questions.
    Dave

    P.S. I have more pictures if you are interested.
     
  15. chuckou

    chuckou Rookie

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    #15 chuckou, Apr 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dave

    What is the part number for this part that you have posted. I can not located that from parts manual book. If you have more picture it would be great. I will PM you my email address. Thanks so much again.

    Charles
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  16. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #16 davebdave, Apr 20, 2009
    Hi Charles,
    I asked Ferrari of Washington for a price just for fun and they did not have a listing for that part. I am pretty sure our top was factory OEM considering it looked like hell and had the Ferrari logo in the rear window. Our car spent a good part of its previous life near the beach so hopefully your part is in better condition. If not it is invisible and not too hard to make.
    email sent.
    Dave
     
  17. MondiAl87

    MondiAl87 Karting

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    #17 MondiAl87, Apr 20, 2009
    JF308 thanks for the credit and your tips, as well as, the photos. I always meant to do it...you guys know the drill.

    I would like to add that the bars are what seem to cause the abrasion marks across the clear rear window when you fold the top. I went ahead and covered the bars with some drawer liner material that looked like ultra suede.

    Also, as all Cabrio owner's know, it's super fun and an a smile inducer to drive around with the top down but it sure does take its toll on the interior and especially the boot cover. I purchased a modern car cover from ebay that only covers the windshield,interior and boot cover. I use it when I park with the top down. It goes on with velcro straps and is secured by pinching three tabs in the gap between the engine cover and the trunk lid. It works way better than the factory canvas and leather strap contraption. I almost lost an eye trying to strap that thing down when the long strap came undone.

    Lastly keep your leather well oiled with Leatherique's Rejuv and don't forget the boot cover.
     
  18. MondiAl87

    MondiAl87 Karting

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    #18 MondiAl87, Apr 20, 2009
    Sorry, forgot to mention the ID change.

    Al
     
  19. chuckou

    chuckou Rookie

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    #19 chuckou, May 12, 2009
    Dave

    Thank you for your detail photo on the convertable top, I am on my last stage of completeing the replacement. One question, how to remove the back seat of the mondial. Thanks for your help

    Charles
     
  20. davebdave

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    #20 davebdave, May 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey Charles,
    there were a few different interiors for the Mondi, so I can't speak for all of them. In ours you get the lower cushions out by removing the two bolts underneath the forward part of the lower seat. If you feel around you will find them. To get the seat backs off you will have to remove the carpet after you fold the seat down. Here is a photo. I will be interested to hear how the replacement went.
    Dave
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  21. buzzm2005

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    #21 buzzm2005, May 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I too just broke a toggle and started to replace with Ron's units. I got the "long" pin out because it has an e-connector on the end and that was easy to snap off, but the "short" pin doesn't have an e-connector. It does not seem to come off at all. One side seems like a cap (the picture on the right below) and the other side a very small hole with no grooving for a torque or hex or regular screwdriver. My latch assembly is from an 89 t. Attached are 2 pix of the short pin still in the assembly.
    Clues anyone?
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  22. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #22 davebdave, May 24, 2009
    I think you have to drill it like you would a rivet head. Then you can replace it with Ron's removable pin.
    Dave
     
  23. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

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    #23 buzzm2005, May 24, 2009
    You are correct and confirmed by both Ron and hardware store guy. The pin will have to be drilled out.
     
  24. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula 3

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    #24 NYCFERRARIS, Aug 7, 2021
    How do we reach Ron ? I checked his profile page and couldn't figure out how to PM him...
     
  25. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Formula Junior

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    #25 greatscott73, Aug 7, 2021
    ronfrohock likes this.
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