POLL: JB could have been MS ?!

there's only one MS, and we'll never see a racer of his caliber again. JB got lucky this year and already the rest of the field are starting to catch up. JB toiled in the back for the past two hears with Honda. Driver's like MS and Alonso push their team and help car development so that if the team does fall behind they'll catch up. I like JB but he just got extremely lucky this year.

 

I still think Hamilton has it and will be multiple WDC.

I just don't care for him personally anymore since he is nothing more than a cheap liar. As far as I'm concerned, he can go to hell. But he is still super talented.

 

And yes you and many others are probably right.

And also yes this part of LH is clouding my judgement. Even more I am totally convinced that he is the smiling assassin and that Alonso was the innocent party at McLaren, with LH and his father turning the team against him. Alonso could have demonstrated more dignity but ... well he didn't.

And yes I guess this is because I have not seen him do anything brilliant in a weak car yet. Sorry I do not consider podiums and points gathering a big deal, thanks to attrition and driving patiently that is not impossible. Heck even Weber gets points occassionally ... talking previous years here, not this year.

Remember Alonso managed to get I think 2 wins last year in the horrrible Renault ... they were not just places, but WINS. Now that was impressive, and also probably lucky but the results are in the record books.

Remember also MS in 96 in Spain, completely amazing. Remember also how he put that brick on pole or the front row in other races and the car looked like it was out of control nearly every corner. MS simply man handled the thing far faster than it should ever have gone. Brilliant and I loved it.

Maybe with these new cars a driver can not do that ... if that is the case then the sport has gone backwards .

LH has only shown to me that he is an aggressive racer. Good but back that up with his obvious personality flaws and I don't see an aggressive racer, I see a bad attitude to others in his way. I think the FIA see this too hence why they have been so hard on him.
Pete

 

Actually I don't think Lewis is that clever. His dad was the evil spirit behind the Alonso out campaign. If Lewis had a brain, he wouldn't have lied to Charly Whiting 3 times in a row while knowing that there are audio tapes of his pit comms and his post race interviews. Not that bright. Still a fantastic racer.

 

Atleast he does try to pass. That is a big plus, and of course he is obviously fast as he was competitive against Alonso in a very similar car.

Pete

 

I am confused. Please, how do you really feel Andreas?

 

Martin Brundle and Ayrton Senna did equally well in F3, and look at the difference the car makes in F1 (actually, in 1984 - the motor).

If Brundle and Senna had reversed roles, would that have changed anything ?

 

Hmmm, not a fair comment. Senna, like a man, started in a weak car to prove that he had the goods. He started in a Toleman (I think), then he moved to Lotus, Mclaren and Williams.

So while I understand what you are saying, Senna removed that from the equation and let his ability shine through.
Pete

 

LOL! So if McLaren wanted to sign him in 1984 he would have said "NO! I need to prove I have the goods!"???

Sure, Lewis got lucky and landed the McLaren drive at the right time when the car was competetive. But let's not be jealous of that and knock him for it. I think Mark Webber said it best when he was asked about Lewis' fortunate position. He basically said that he still has to perform in the car and he's done that. If this was Mark's first season would you also knock him for being lucky and driving the Red Bull? I wouldn't.

 

I feel the same way about Hamilton as I do about Schumacher: Both fantastic racers and both convicted liars who put self interest above fair play in racing.

 

I actually believe Senna had a number of offers and did indeed want to prove himself ... so said no.

I wouldn't knock Mark because Mark has had to make it from Australia, the other side of the world and a million miles away from F1. Lewis was effectively contracted with McLaren since he was aged in single digits, or atleast from karting onwards. Big difference. He didn't just land the job at McLaren, Ron moulded him ... and then LH had the nerve to turn around and tell Ron to go swivel. I would have then told him to bring MY car back and sit out the rest of the practice session.

So yep compared to just about any other driver, LH had the silver spoon well and truly stuck in his mouth ... and hopefully one day he will publically acknowledge how appreciative of Ron Dennis he is and simply say thanks. It could have been any one of the many young drivers that Ron watched, he was just lucky.

I strongly am against F1 looking for drivers before they compete at say F3 level, they need to get their themselves or atleast without F1 funding it directly as Ron did (I believe) ... next they be scouting around in kindy-gartens (spelling?).

BUT if you read the books, motorsport has always been for the rich and lucky, used to be for elite in society ... but again F1 needs to wait until the driver is actually a man before taking over their lives.
Pete

 

Good point.

Both great drivers but in my opinion the 1996 version of MS would run rings around the current version of LH. I also think Hakenin would show a clean pay of heals to LH. I respect Alonso and think he is the best of the current crop, but Renault and Alonso both sprung at the right time to get their WDC's. Hakenin and MS fought it out, thus:

MS > MH > Alonso > LH

Probably the most, if only, honourable person amongst recent WDC is Hakenin.
Pete

 

He has done that.

Why do they need to do that?

And why do they need to do that.

It is very clear that both McLaren and LH benefited greatly from the relationship and the way it was developed. It was no different from the way it works in other sports; for example, football (soccer) clubs take on and nurture young lads who eventually make it to the club's senior team. Even in "ordinary" life companies take on apprentices and trainees and tutor and develop them for the future. There's nothing special about F1 that 'needs' them to do anything different from what is standard practice anywhere else.

 

It is Hakkinen, but I get your point.

The part that leaves me less impressed with Mika is the fact that it took him like 100 races (plus a first gifted victory by DC) to see the light. The other 3 were superfast right out of the box.

I often wish we could do the comparison of the <your hear here> driver vs the <my year here> driver. But I'm not even sure that would pan out: Some drivers are the product of their times. Just as MS said he would have never raced in the fifties, I'm not sure Hamilton or Alonso would have been any good before cars had electronics etc. Part of the modern F1 drivers is to get the max out of their cars, which includes playing with all the electronics etc.

Also regarding Schumacher: He was not spectacular until he entered F1. Webber really gambled by paying for his first seat. The point is, that F1 superstars of their time are just that: Superstars in the cars of those years and in that formula.

 

You really are beyond reasoning when it is quite obvious to me jealously and bitter biased and god knows what else, stuck in the past mindset you have. A shame but don't worry I will never respond again.

Silver spoon and luck my a$$! ask yourself one question! was LH the only one on a Mclaren program, was he from a rich elite background. Google is your friend. ..

 

Silver spoon and luck? No that was another McLaren legend. Senna.

And before senna21 and Senna1994 and 3xWDC pull out their flame throwers: Senna was lucky that it rained in Monaco 84 so he had a chance to show his insane talent to the world. But then again, you need a lucky break in this sport once in a while. After the luck, the rest is up to you. Just as Vettel got lucky with the rain in Monza last year.

 

Yes I will admit, like Andreas, I have no respect for the guy as a person. We don't have to like all of the drivers ...

He and the way McLaren engineered this driver are the final straw that made me stop watching F1. And IanMac I don't think it is right for any sport to do this ... but it is the way of the modern fncked up world.

As for F1, why don't we just go to the next step and make it a computer game. Heck they all train on simulators now ... I've just finished reading a biography of Ascari, he learnt because he wanted to go faster, with Villoresi's guideance. Over the years he improved his speed until he was faster than Villoresi and kept on wanting to go faster.

He didn't have a team of people motivators, etc. developing programs for him, he did it because he had this inner drive, like his father, to make the machine he piloted go as fast as possible. That is the sort of stuff we need in motorsport ... not I want to be a superstar F1 driver, mould that motivation and show me the money.
Pete
ps: I also, and this time I mean it, promise not to discuss LH again, but I reserve the right to say "good job" if he merits it

 

I hear you. I think it is not necessarily F1's fault per se, but the perfectionism of our time in a professional and globalized sport with a lot of money riding on it.

I yearn for the simpler days of the seventies when a guy with big appendages and a bottle of Rum could get pole. Senna became the first semi robot, MS copied him and switched off all human functions in the cockpit. Lewis is the first true android.

 

Sure it's a fair comment - you don't understand what I meant.

'What if' Brundle and Senna switched places ?

The Tyrrell was a great car - and vastly underpowered with a Cosworth.
The Toleman was also a great car - Senna said 'the best handling car I EVER drove' - with not as much HP as the other turbos, and with an unreliable motor. Warwick led races with it in 82, only to DNF with motor issues. If Warwick made the car look good, then the car must have been good..

I take offense to your 'like a man' statement - are you implying Brundle was not 'a man' ?
These were two bloody fast and damned good drivers, but you make your breaks in F1, and Senna was obviously the better driver in F1.

Kinda reminds me of how Vettel is coming along today..

 

I agree with you, I miss guys like James Hunt.. remember when Penthouse sponsored a car ? THAT'LL never happen again.

But the first semi-robot can be traced back to Niki Lauda, IMO, and picked up again later with Senna.

 

No not at all. I was referring to other drivers that started in the best car on the grid ... both Brundle and Senna were man enough to work their way up, even in F1.

Pete

 

Ah yes, "The Computer". You're right.

 

Jeez, it's so impossible to compare drivers. They each have their assets and liabilities on the track and both Shumi and Button have plenty of each. Personally, I think Button is and always has been one of the very best drivers in the field. We -- even his fans -- just forgot about that fact because of the inferior equipment he's been working with.

Not to jinx it or anything but it'd be very, very cool to see him get a championship this year.