Injector Wiring Question | FerrariChat

Injector Wiring Question

Discussion in '348/355' started by Loser, May 2, 2009.

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  1. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I just finished installing the Dave Helms gold connector upgrade kit. While installing the injector plugs, I noticed something that doesn't seem right. The injector cables have little rings with numbers on them. They start on the passenger side front going clockwise with 1-2-3-4-?-5-7-8. The ? cable just has a black ring with no number on it. It would seem that they should be 1-2-3-4-5-?-7-8. What would happen if two injector wires were switched? Would the car still run? Would there be symptoms? Can I switch the ? and 5 cables without causing major problems?
     
  2. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Any comments? I have looked up injector wiring on the general internet and it seems that wires can be swapped to cause lean or rich situations to vary the engine performance. In some setups, wiring order doesn't matter because all injectors fire at the same time. In the F355 though, it seems this is not the case since the wires are numbered. I am tempted to just switch the two questionable connector to see what happens, but I don't want to damage the motor.
     
  3. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
    BANNED Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2005
    1,223
    Toulouse (France)
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    Eric DECOUX
    #3 eric355, May 3, 2009
    Last edited: May 3, 2009
    Probaly barely discernible on engine operation. At high RPM and high load, injectors are open 80-85% of the time to provide the required fuel, then they are not really timed to valve opening, they are open much longer than the valve is open. (low pressure) Sequential injection allows mainly to smooth the engine operation at ildle and mid-range but does not make a significant difference at full power.

    In any case, to be safe, plug it as initially planned. Simply check from the ECU connector which plug is for which injector. pin 31 to injector 5, pin 35 to injector 6, ...
     
  4. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Thanks Eric.
     
  5. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Yep. 5 and 6 were swapped. I switched them back and reset the ECU. It is raining today, so I'll have to go for a drive later in the week to see if anything changed. It does seem to idle better, although it still idles high (1200-1300) or low (700) at cold. It usually idles high at cold, but about 1 in 5 times that I start it, it will idle low at cold. When it idles low, if I push on the gas, it almost stalls and the battery light comes on for a fraction of a second. Then it idles high.
     
  6. Lagerlout

    Lagerlout Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2006
    468
    West Sussex, UK
    Full Name:
    Mr. LL
  7. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I have already cleaned the IACV to no avail. I also swapped with a new one, again to no avail.
     
  8. Marco Bussadori

    Marco Bussadori Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2007
    430
    London
    Full Name:
    Marco Bussadori
    If you can, check the 02 sensors. Pull a spark plug from each bank, if a bit sooty, and the O2 sensors are over 3 years old you may have one or both mis-reading and being borderline to when they go open/close circuit on their own (eg. the ECU ignores them).

    Secondly, ensure your idling valves are working properly (don't know if you are Motronic 2.7 or 5.2, this is for the 2.7) and reset the idle after cleaning the idling screws and the hole they fir it with some carburettor cleaning spray. You should balance the vacuum between the banks.

    If you are on a Motronic 2.7, a final thing it to clean out the MAF's and measure the CO screw setting, which should read 393 on pin 1 and 6 with an ohm meter (as it does from Bosch). If the ECU goes open-loop then it reads the CO screws. 393 is quite rich (stoichiometry is around 450-550 ohm)

    This is the whole injection system.

    The ferrari 348 and up (incl. the 355) have individually timed injectors, that still have discrete timing up to about 9000 RPM. So if you swap cables, you will not cause damage, but feel like the engine runs a bit rough. The fuel will be sprayed on the closed valve instead of into the airstream, reducing atomization and affecting the fueling curve, but will still run a bit rough. If you pull the cable the cylinder will not get any fuel and you'll get a 1/8th drop, which is noticeable at idle and more so as you rev.

    Marco
     
  9. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2005
    1,223
    Toulouse (France)
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    Eric DECOUX
    #9 eric355, May 4, 2009
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
    Yes injectors are timed with regard to the valve opening but at 9000 RPM and full load they are open MUCH longer than the valve is open (80 to 85% of a complete 2 crankshaft turns for the injectors, while the intake valve is open let's say 40%). So anyway lot of fuel is injected while the valve is closed. No difference in these conditions IMO. In addition, a lot of cars are running great with all the injectors opening at the same time. The difference is may be discernible at idle, may be ....

    Tom, have you recorded the OBD data during your cold starts : air temp, coolant temp, ignition advance, closed/open loop status, O2 sensors, MAF, ... Can you see any difference in these parameters when you have a high or low idle?
     
  10. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Hi Marco,

    My O2 sensors are less than a year old and the system is running closed loop. I replaced all four of the with Bosch generic sensors with the correct part numbers. There is another long thread about this.

    I have a 5.2 system and I do get the P0102 (MAF low voltage) code frequently. Maybe it has something to do with that. Although, I still have the problem when I'm not seeing the code.

    Eric,

    I should be able to get the cold data for the high idle pretty easily. I'll try to do that this week. The low idle is hit and miss, but I'll try to capture it.

    Thanks,

    Tom
     

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