Would you watch "F1" without Ferrari?

I voted 'no'. I bet if Ferrari pulled out, most other teams would follow. What would be the point for anyone to race in F1 if not to beat Ferrari? Also, I feel confident that, if Ferrari pulled out, they collaborate with other car makers to start another series. Ferrari is bigger than Bernie and Max, and they know it.

 

Do you think the motivation for teams come into F1 is solely to beat Ferrari? The point of being in the series is to beat the competition, whoever it is. If Ferrari wasn't there that wouldn't change. I don't believe anyone currently contemplating joining F1, say USGP, would change their minds because Ferrari were gone - unless, of course, the economics of F1 changed as a result of their departure.

 

Yes I would watch, for how long is debatable.

 

Any driver who raced or tested for a break-away team would cop a life time ban from any FIA racing license.
No engineer or other team personel in a break-away team would ever be issued with a pit pass for FIA sanctioned race.
Any circuit that allowed a B-A race at its track would lose FIA sanctioned racing of any kind. Most circuits year round calendar is filled with FIA formula and club racing events.

The teams might swing a race here or there in the odd country but the FIA can stop an international break-away F1 clone series dead in its tracks. Pun intended.

 

+1

 

I did read your post, and what you left unstated was that you're looking at "fastest around an F1 road course". There are cars much faster around courses too tight for F1 cars. And if some courses are too tight for F1 cars, then you have to look at race venues too straight for F1 machines to keep the upper hand.

My post also mentioned that the "fastest" has been a matter of opinion and debate for many decades.

Every race series is tailored to a specific type of racing venue. WRC changed significantly when rallyes became either pavement or gravel or snow, rather than a mix of several surfaces in every rallye. Similarly, F1 is tailored to certain types of tracks. F1 is the "pinnacle" on those tracks. But there are other kinds of race venues, as well.

For some, F1 is the pinnacle of motorsports, "because it is".

That's an opinion, and there may be people following F1 when it's spec cars running around tracks in upper mongolia, and you have to tune in a week later to see who won the race in the courtrooms.

But that's strictly a matter of opinion and perspective.

From my perspective, my opinion is that F1 has already drifted too far away from real machines to be what it was when the 250GTO took the championship four years running, and the "World Champion" driver would compete in several types of events, including tracks, cross-country (TF or MM), and even the Indy 500.

I'd rather see Ferrari contesting LeMans than in F1.

That's also an opinion.

 

F1 Now a days has nothing to do with the seasons where Schumacher, senna, Prost and Mansell drove,
so, for me there would be no reason to watch F1 without Ferrari, the only part still original of the concept.

 

If that be the case:
Rest assured I will not be watching/following that!.

 

I like the amateur levels of racing, Its not like watching the F1 WWWF. If ferrari was out of F1 they would still be in ALMS and that is some great racing.

 

Not an F1 road course. A road course for cars. Don't tell me you're thinking again about some tight twisted mini track that only a shifter kart can fit through and therefore it is fastest and the pinnacle of motorsports. C'mon.

I always find it amusing when people bring up Le Mans, particularly combined with the argument, that F1 is too political or too meddled with etc. Le Mans! The one series where the winner is picked the day they announce the rule changes. And that's not just my opinion but actually the opinion of real racers who have participated in it.

Le Mans is a farce. That is my opinion.

 

Watkin's Glen, Brands Hatch, Imola -- all gone from F1. Twisted mini tracks?

You mention comparing a rally car to an F1 car at Silverstone.

Not running an LMP1 against an F1 machine at the Glen, or Brands Hatch, or even Imola, but running F1 against a rally car at *Silverstone*.

Of course, it's not like you could run an F1 machine against a rally car at, say, any of the stages of the Thousand Lakes -- the F1 machine wouldn't make it through the stage. It'd probably high-center itself in the first quarter mile.

Or just try running that Silverstone F1 machine around Monaco, without changing out the steering rack for the Loews hairpin.

Or put an F1 car on the Indy oval against an IRL machine. (The Indy 500 used to be an event in the F1 WDC.)


Any race series will be the "pinnacle", if you *only* look at the courses it's built for.

Such is "relativity". You pick your "preferred" frame of reference.


I was quite serious about shifter karts being the current pinnacle of motor *sports*. Without all the TV rights and commercial money that infect F1 and LeMans, it's pure racing competition, without the micromanagement, and a lot more flat out on-track racing than you get in F1.

I'm surprised that someone who favors the WDC over the WCC would play the "technology" card to gloss over kart racing.

Yes, shifter karts aren't the pinnacle of pure speed technology development. But, in case you haven't noticed, between the spec requirements, the budget caps, and the testing bans, neither is F1, anymore.



Ferrari built its reputation on *streetable* racing cars like the 166M, the 250TR, the 250GTO, etc.

Ferrari corp develops some tech in F1, but look at the massive machines they're putting in the showrooms, lately. They're moving towards becoming another BMW: a car that can't decide if it's a sports car or a luxury car.

The 288GTO, the F40, etc, were all built as racing homologation cars -- and the F50 was built to homologate the engine for racing. What was the Enzo built to support? An anniversary?

And "Challenge" or "Scuderia" cars: they never needed to produce a special racing version of a 250GTO. It was *already* a racing version. Ever see a 328 Challenge?

Le Mans (and SCCA -- yes, I've noticed the "brand oriented" rule books) may be a fiasco for competition, but it might restore the fading connection between Ferrari's racing team and the production car design.

 

I wish that Ferrari's link to production/racing cars was reestablished. Up until recently, LeMans was much less interesting with no Ferrari's running. It would be nice if they took some of the money being slashed from the F1 budget and reallocated it to the sports car program.

 

F1 without Ferrari is like baseball without the Yankees. It just wouldn't be the same...

 

Don't get carried away because it was Silverstone. The F1 car would kick the Rally car's behind at any road course: They gave it like a 30 second head start and they still beat it. They chose Silverstone because of the logistics me thinks (British track, British TV station, British cars and drivers).

Actually I would like to see that and I'm pretty sure it would match if not beat the IRL. There was speculation/talk about a while ago and the F1 guys said they would simply change the setup and could do it. The F1's advantage for braking and acceleration would be pretty much gone, but it could run as fast. Point in case: The BAR Honda that went to Bonneville. Which also proved that anybody can run fast in a straight line.

If Ferrari gives up on F1 (or any other pinnacle open wheel racing series that follows it) and goes back to Le Mans racing, it will be a sad day. And probably when I will have to seriously contemplate trading my Ferrari for a manufacturer who has the gutts to measure itself with the best in the top league. Le Mans is for has beens and also runs.

 

... and the rally car would kick the F1 car's butt on any special stage.
So what? Cars built for a circuit will do better *on that circuit* than cars built for a different type of circuit.

As long as you define the "only" racing venues to be F1 circuits, you'll always see F1 as the pinnacle --- in it's own pond.

But there are other racing venues out there.
And Ferrari's reputation was built in the first place upon racing sports cars, not on open wheel cars.

 

Not sure if this has been said yet, but IMO Ferrari isn't the heart of F1 but rather F1 is the heart of Ferrari. I would lose a lot of my love for Ferrari if they pulled out, their support of racing is one reason I love them! So yes, I'd continue watching F1 assuming it didn't evolve into much more of a farce than the current heads have made it.

 

I think a key point here is what drivers would be left if the major teams, or many of them, pulled out. If F-1 lost the fan power of Ferrari and most of the top drivers F-1 would feel like the minor leagues for some years. Even when new stars emerged the fans would being saying that the real stars were in the new manufacturer's league.

 

Agreed, but how long did that last? At some point their sports car success disappeared or become 2nd and 3rd fiddle behind their F1 triumphs. Today's mystique is based on both and in the current sports cars they are milking their F1 titles with little plaques on the dashboard.

Ferrari and F1 can both survive without each other. But both are infinitely stronger with each other.

 

Just about as long as Enzo was alive.

To keep their reputation for their road cars, Ferrari needs racing for tech development.

But it doesn't have to be F1.

Especially if F1 becomes a budget capped spec series. Like CART was, before it died out.

 

You're being generous here. The last great victories for Ferrari in road car racing were in the sixties. Daytona had some success in the early seventies at Le Mans. Enzo died in the mid eighties, something like 10 to 15 years after a big road car success.

F1 as a spec series wouldn't serve Ferrari's marketing exploits. Agreed.

The question is, when does it become a spec series? And how much more leeway is there in other racing formulae including eg. Le Mans: About the last thing I want to see happening is Ferrari develop a Diesel powered industrial appliance a la Audi. Thanks, but no thanks. That wouldn't be progress but plain BS.

 

If Ferrari left, it would not be long before other teams left and so would the sponors. Revenue would drop in half right away and slowly fall from there. Face it, F1 is nothing without the scarlet team. What I believe will happen is that teams will form a new series to get away from the idiots that run this one.

 

I guess I did watch F1 "without" Ferrari for years.

I cut my F1 teeth back when Stewart, and Andretti (Mario) where racing. I really got into it big time during the Prost, Mansell, Senna, Alesi era. Shumi hadn't even come into the picture. My brother and I used to constantly ask each other what Ferrari's problem was, and why couldn't they compete? They were pretty much out of the picture as McLaren and Honda where duking it out with each other for top dog. Then it was Williams turn to be on top, and the Benetton team running the Ford V8 when Shumi came on board.

So I think I'd still watch F1 if Ferrari where to drop off the grid. It would suck not seeing such a racing icon not race but I think I would still watch? For how long? That I dunno?

I used to watch CART all the time, but when the damn Indy Racing League broke up the Indy500 that really pissd me off and I pretty much stopped watching both of the racing series a couple years later. I guess what I'm getting at is. So long as the racing is still good I'd watch, but soon as it starts getting stupid I'll be looking for other forms of racing to watch. Bring on WRC (which Speed doesn't air anymore).

 

+1

What he said.

 

I'll keep watching as long as it doesn't become a full spec series and there are at least a few interesting talents/characters out there. My personal favorite era was the turbo '80s, when US TV coverage was sadly lacking. I have to say recent years starting from when Alonso shook things up in '05 to the present have been excellent!!

I've already been hoping for years for Max and Bernie retire to their mansions. Come on guys, for the good of the sport.

 

Max has dumbed down the sport to the point that F1 cars are not the pinnacle of motorsport that it used to be.

Just my 2 cents.

Stephen