The 250 race from Jerez was fantastic.
call me when he wins both MotoGP classes in one day like Agostini did.... or when he wins the IoM TT... again like Ago.
How does that make Ago better? No rider races in 2 classes at the same time anymore. Rossi did win the other classes, then went on to win the big show several times, and he's not even close to being done yet. Do you believe that if Rossi were to race in the IoM today, against any and all other pro riders in the world, that he would not have an excellent chance to win it? Do you not believe the odds would be greatly in his favor? Ago was great, there's no denying that. Rossi is just greater.
Alan: I had a chance to observe Ago, up close and personal, at Daytona one year. I followed him for about 5 laps. I didn't finish, but even though he was on a works bike, he didn't have anywhere near the speed of Roberts, or Lawson. Maybe he was past his prime then, but then again, remember he rode a great bike against minor competition, i.e., one other rider, and he and Hailwood split championships. I've seen Rossi ride, and he is a game changer. Best ever? who knows, but one thing is very, very clear: he is currently the best, with Stoner not far behind him, and everyone else quite a ways back. In all sports, the people get better, that's why records keep getting broken. He's the best now, which probably means the best ever (at least for now, until someone better comes along). Art
I believe Stoner is who he is because of the perfect chemistry. If Stoner did not have the Ducati, he may not be as strong. Only Rossi can adapt to the brands and win. Ducatis are a unique bike and it takes a unique rider to take advantage of it's ability. Look at Hayden, he's an awesome rider with a skill I thought would fit well with the torque of Ducati. But with bad luck and little time he has not shown that the stars are aligned for him like they were in '06. Don't get me wrong, Stoner is incredible, but he is not Rossi. Either way, the rules have made things interesting for this season and it's nice to see Lorenzo doing well aside from the lowside he accepts responsibility for. And the "Happy Meal" kid he's looking strong too.
Stoner is arguably the best of the rest, however I think guys like Pedrosa and Lorenzo are a lot closer in skill to Stoner than Stoner is to Rossi. I think Rossi is just that far ahead of everyone else. I would bet that if you put Rossi on a Duc, he would beat Stoner 9 times out of 10.
Well, I am a big, big, BIG Rossi fan, but I really can't accept the concept of GOAT (in any sport except baseball where we all know the Babe Ruth was the GOAT). I'd say that it's difficult enough to have GOAT span two decades {GOTD} let alone any greater amount of time. On another note, wanna bet that if Casey Stoner could morph into a Troy Bayliss or Mick Doohan look alike that he'd be much more popular?
Nikki got lucky. A great rider, one of the best here, but not world championship great. Like "little Kenny" he got lucky, people broke, got hurt, and he didn't. Helped to be on the best bike that season too. Art
by your own logic... Rossi only has one real competitor, like you claim Ago only had one. The point is... Rossi is indeed the best out there NOW. Its VERY hard to compare era's... everyone faced their own challenges. To me, Ago faced more than anyone else, and came out in the #1 position in them all, on the same day, on different bikes, and raced what has to be one of the toughest races in the world, and won. that, to me, has the hallmark of the "best ever".
chop, as you say it really is tough to compare eras. this is the old fangio vs. senna discussion...they are both the best of their time. pcb
Stoner was already very impressive on a Honda. It's a sign of his qualities that he has tamed the Ducati beast. I wonder what he would do with a Yamaha. I think he would regularly beat Rossi and Lorenzo.
Are you kidding????? Stoner would regularly beat Rossi???? That is the funniest statement I have read in a long time.
Stoner already beat Rossi on a machine that's known to be a handful. Give Stoner a easier bike (which I think the Yamaha is) and he should have no problems beating Rossi. Unless ofcourse the Yamaha doesn't suit Stoner's driving style.
Stoner is in some ways inferior to Rossi and in some ways superior. Stoner's biggest advantage is his precision while riding. Each lap his line and braking points are millimeter-perfect. When he gets a lead and a rythym, he is gone. The Ducati for all its ferocious reputation seems to like this precision, and despite the talent of Melandri and Hayden, their styles do not appear compatible. With regards to precision, Pedrosa is similar to Stoner, and probably would be the best choice to also ride the Ducati. Rossi and Lorenzo, as well as most of the rest of the field, are what I would call "racers" rather than the Stoner/Pedrosa robot rider racing against the clock. The racers adapt and mix it up with other competitors better. Their lines are not as precise, but over race distance that isn't always a bad thing. Of the "racers" Rossi is undoubtedly the best, although Lorenzo is not far behind him. Lorenzo obviously makes more mistakes and has more crashes. Rossi actually could be called a "racer that is also precise", that is probably what makes him so good. He is adaptable to any race condition. Give him traffic and he excells, give him a lead and he can stretch it out when he gets a rythym, changing weather is not a big problem, and he can alter his lines to frustrate an opponent or make a pass.
bigodino, Stoner must not believe that to be true, or he would switch to Yamaha (or at least attempt to do so). There's nothing saying that Stoner cannot switch, but then again there is nothing saying that Stoner can switch and be competitive let alone win (or better yet be champion). Maybe Casey will decide that switching to Yamaha (and beating Rossi) is what he needs to do; however, realize that so far, in three and a fraction seasons, Casey is down two victories to Rossi (17 to 19). Present score is: 72 victories for Rossi, 17 for Stoner. Sixteen Stoner victories in his first three years projects to 64 victories in 12 years (at the conclusion of the 2017 season). That's still eight victories short of where Rossi is presently (nine and a fraction seasons). If Casey is the better racer, he's got a strange way of showing it.
My riding spanned a couple of eras (tells you that I didn't know when to quit). The earlier era (pre-Roberts) saw people race without sliding the bikes. Roberts slid both ends of the bikes, consistently, and he was indeed a game changer. Once people saw what he could do, if you were going to be competitive, you had to be able to do that. I was part of that era. I partied with those guys, saw them. Indeed, spoke with Steve McLaughlin yesterday, and we were talking about how no one trained, we'd party until we dropped, then race the next day. You can't do that now. No way. Ago was known for his partying, as was Mike the bike, and so was big Kenny. Sheene was a serial skirt chaser, who where ever he was, was always looking for more action. None of the current riders have our flaws, except maybe Hopkins (who had an alcohol problem before he got married). In short, they are a lot better now. It's like comparing current baseball players with those earlier guys who never trained, didn't have the science behind them, but were great in their day. What I'm trying to say is that the current crop is a whole bunch better than the earlier generation. Comparisons between generations is difficult, but there is no way that the older group can compare with the current generation. No way. An example: put someone Lewis' size and skill up against a current giant heavyweight boxers and watch them get killed. Same thing here. Art
If you mean Joe Louis (at his best), I'd pick him against any of the present day heavyweights - same for Jack Johnson, and I could pick any number of other fighters at lesser weights too. MMA is a different game, but it gives the perfect recent example of old school vs. new school in Fedor Emelianenko vs. Andre Arlovski this past January: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzUGZWPy18U
Even Rossi respects Casey as a rider. Also remember his family gave up everything for this kid. Most of his early years was as a privateer and yet he still achieved alot.
Not all Dutchies blow Seriously, my point is not that Stoner is absolutely or generally better than Rossi but he is able to give Rossi a hard time. I think he is one of the few real challengers and I think he's able to beat Rossi even on equal machinery. Wether he's able to beat Rossi to a championship on the same machine I'm not sure.
Time and time again, Rossi has a mediocre start, and falls back to beyond 10th position. No other rider reels them in like Rossi does, one after the other, and then more often than not, snatches the lead. It is poetry in motion to watch.
Stoner was extremely impressive on the Honda, but crashed very often. Stoner was on pole in only his second race, and had a few podiums that year. His LCR Honda was the worst of the Honda customer bikes as well, with only rudimentary traction control that he didn't trust. When Ducati hired him, nearly everyone including myself were wondering how many sets of bodywork Ducati had purchased for the year. But everyone was amazed by his consistency and speed. It seems that almost all future champions show their potential very quickly reagrdless of equipment. Rainey, Lawson, Doohan, Roberts Sr, Rossi, Stoner, and now guys like Pedrosa and Lorenzo all pushed for wins in their first or second season. Criville, Roberts Jr, and Hayden are the championship exceptions in recent years, and generally regarded as "lesser" champions as they were as much the beneficiary of other's mistakes as their own riding. None of them pushed for wins early in their career. IMO, younger riders like De Puniet, Hopkins, Vermuelen, and Toseland will never be MotoGP champions, if they were made of "championship stuff" we would have seen it by now. The old saying is that it is easier to get a fast rider not to crash than to get a slower non-crasher to be fast. Casey was and example of the former for sure. Lorenzo is the same.
peter...it was just a joust. thank you for not getting too razzed. i don't disagree with you totally but i do think that rossi has is a true racer and can find a way to win regardless of his equipment. if moto gp were a spec series, he would still sit atop the podium. best to you peter! pcb
