Post 20 May Decision...what's next for Ferrari?

Per BBC: Ferrari have failed in their bid to stop Formula 1's governing body introducing controversial new rules which limits team spending.

A French court dismissed their appeal on Wednesday in Paris against the FIA, which wants to introduce an optional £40m budget cap from 2010.

The proposal prompted Ferrari to threaten to quit F1, with Renault, Red Bull and Toyota sharing a similar view.

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I suspect that Ferrari WON'T drop out of F1 - I still think there's some discussion room.

I hope Ferrari drops out of F1 and gets away from the continuing saga of ever-changing rules; dropped venues and the rest of the story.

I hope if Ferrari doesn't form another series with the other teams, that Ferrari takes the MC12 and the FXX Evo and developes a prototype and conquers the sportscar scene with it. As Tom Kristensen said in an article in Autosport yesterday - the future is sportscar racing.

Carol

Here's the Autosport report on the hearing:

Ferrari has lost its legal bid to lodge an injunction against the FIA's plans for a voluntary budget cap in Formula 1.

The Maranello outfit was told by French legal authorities on Wednesday that it did not have a valid reason to block plans for a £40 million voluntary budget cap.

The move means that next week's entry deadline for the 2010 championship will go ahead, leaving current teams a few days to resolve their opposition to the regulations.

Ferrari had gone to the Tribunal de Grande Instance in Paris because it believed that the FIA's introduction of the regulations had been in breach of a technical veto that the team has over future technical rule changes.

The FIA argued, however, that the veto was no longer valid - and that Ferrari had also not used the available opportunities to impose its right.

It was also suggested to the court that imposing an entry deadline of next week was important to help secure the future of new teams in the sport - who need as much notice as possible so as to get their entries in place.

Ferrari has joined several other teams in saying that it will not lodge an entry to the 2010 world championship unless changes are made to the rules for next year.

 

Ferrari has blasted the quality of entries being lined up to join Formula 1 next year - even going so far as saying the sport would perhaps be better off rebranded as 'Formula GP3'.

Shortly prior to finding out that it had lost its legal bid to prevent the FIA introducing a £40 million voluntary budget cap in F1 for next year, Ferrari vented its frustration at the teams hoping to make the step up to motor racing's premier category.

As AUTOSPORT revealed earlier today, the court case that took place in Paris yesterday revealed the list of teams serious about joining F1 was Wirth Research, Lola, USF1, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos and iSport.

These teams, and the FIA, claimed that if Ferrari's legal bid was successful and the entry deadline for 2010 was delayed by an injunction, then they would have little chance of getting things in place to be ready to race next year.

Ferrari has said it is shocked at the entries – and does not believe they are the kind of teams that will enhance F1's image.

"They couldn't almost believe their eyes, the men at women working at Ferrari, when they read the papers this morning and found the names of the teams, declaring that they have the intention to race in Formula 1 in the next year," said a statement issued on Ferrari's website.

"Looking at the list, which leaked yesterday from Paris, you can't find a very famous name, one of those one has to spend 400 Euros per person for a place on the grandstand at a GP (plus the expenses for the journey and the stay) [to see]."

The statement added: "Can a world championship with teams like them - with due respect - have the same value as today's Formula 1, where Ferrari, the big car manufacturers and teams, who created the history of this sport, compete? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it Formula GP3?"

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Epsilon Euskadi (Spanish team) has produced the absolute most beautiful proto coupe I've ever seen - watched it race at some LMS races last year, they gave up their LeMans 24h invite this year and aren't running in LMS due to financial constraints - how does that work for being in F1? RML has run the Lola coupes in LMS - I really don't remember any significant wins from that camp. The two GP2 teams are the best of those expressing interest - Campos and iSport. At one point ART GP2 was interested in F1 - that would be interesting since it's Jean Todt's son's team. A second US team has also been rumored (possibly Penske) - I would think that Roger has a better go of things than the other US entry - but I don't see Penske playing cards with Max and Bernie - if anything Roger should hold the the positions of both.

Lots of discussion - good/bad/in-different to occur between now and 29 May.

Carol

 

This sounds like sour grapes.

To Ferrari: take the decision, stop whining, and TRY to win a few races because it is obvious that Ferrari of today can only win (maybe) with lots of money, not with creative engineering. Without teams like Force India, and remember even Toro Rosso and Red Bull were once at the rear of the pack, F1 would not exist. If Brawn was not Ross Brawn, I have a feeling Ferrari would have criticized their entry, as they have no name.

I am very disappointed at Ferrari's attitude. They need to get over themselves and their importance rather quickly, and focus on the game plan on race day. F1 will exist and ultimately grow without Ferrari.

 

These prospective teams make Force India look like McLaren.
The idea that they will be the basis for a sustainable F1 series is laughable.
As the negotiations wind down each side is giving it's last best shot at intimidating the other side. It would be a mistake to take any of this at face value.

 

+1...although I wonder if we are actually seeing something develop on the scale of the CART/IRL split. If you read between the lines, Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Toyota et al are saying 'we ARE Formula 1 racing and should not be subjected to rules that favor F1 newbies'. BernieMax is saying 'we can't draw more teams into the sport unless they have a realistic chance of competing. That is in the best interests of the sport's longevity'.

I don't know...I see both sides, but I probably side more with Ferrari & Co. The newbies should have to pay their dues to be competitive on the grid, versus making F1 a spec series that allows new teams immediate success (remember, this is also about development freezes and technical regs that keeps the grid clustered together)

 

This would not be a spec series, a spec series runs one engine and possibly only one or two chassis. What the budget caps do is force the teams to finally be creative.

 

IMVVHO that would be akin to destroying the sport in order to save it.
The IRL/CART split having worked so well. Santayana was right.

 

Precisely. I don't know if a de-balled Ferrari, McLaren or Renault keeps the sport in high esteem.

 

Let's get back to racing.

 

We all know that Ron (i.e. IRL is a true spec series), but with the amount of control over technological specs and development, it virtually becomes a spec series. Regarding the caps, I think it's designed to level the playing field and give new teams and back-markers the opportunity to be instantly competitive. The net result is it forces creativity among all teams but it limits historic teams that have invested so much into F1 from using all of their resources. I'm certain Ferrari has spent billions on development & stockpiling technology over all of its seasons in F1 and now they're being told they can't use the stockpile anymore. BernieMax's proposal clearly favors new teams from this perspective.

 

The rules don't favour newbies, the rules are the same for everybody.

What does 'pay their dues' mean; that they should run at the back for a few years before they're allowed to win anything? If a new team can produce a winning car they'll win races, if they can't produce a winning car they won't. If they are good enough to produce a winning car in the first few years, what's wrong with that?

 

Well, Max appears to have won. His mission to turn F1 into a laughing stock of a series is moving forward. What a sad day for such a once incredible sport. Ferrari and the others should definitely leave. Hope they start something else that embarasses the new FGP3 series that will begin next year....shouldn't be too hard. Nobody will pay to watch the silly new FGP3 and will instead pay to continue to watch world class racing teams continue to race...world class. Max will be left standing in his poor excuse of an immatation sand box by himself....and a few Nazi hookers of course!

 

You're right....it would be worse!

 

The rules favor newbies by limiting the use of resources by the established teams. If a team has a long history in F1 and that avails them to advantages that a new team doesn't have, why should they be limited from using them?

Paying their dues: is the onus on a new team to figure out how to compete against established teams (Brawn) or is it on BernieMax to limit established teams advantages in an effort to manufacture competitiveness?

 

What controls over technological specs, I do not remember? I understand that the engineers will still have the ability to be creative.

Even with controls, it is still not a spec series. If major teams leave, such as Renault and Mercedes, taking their engines with them, and teams are forced to use Cosworth engines, then it gets much closer to being a spec series.

Rememeber, Mercedes is one board member vote away from leaving F1 and not because of budget caps but because of economic concerns (and the BS with McLarens problems).

Alonso left Renault because they could not commit to F1 at the time, and now Renault even with Alonso, continue to be a mid pack team. If they continue to be mid pack, and Alonso leaves for another team in 2010, what will the Renault board decide about their F1 future?

No one on FChat has come up with any viable alternative to prepare F1 for teams leaving in the future. How do you attract new teams? I do not remember the exact number, I think 20, but contractually, there must be a minimum number of cars on the grid. This is not the 1980's, current budgets for Ferrari and Toyota together are probably more than all the budgets of the entire grid in 1985. F1 has priced itself out of future growth.

What do you do to prepare for the inevitable departure of teams? Ideas?

Budget caps are the only way to go in my opinion.

 

Brawn should be the inspiration.

Shouldn't the success of Brawn show that all teams don't have to spend big to compete? If Ferrari and Toyota want to spend a lot of money on development, so be it. It doesn't guarantee success for either of them. If you're underfunded, you must simply be smarter and that's what Ross has done.

 

What advantages would those be? Ferrari obviously doesn't have any 'magic bullet' lying around in the factory, if they did their car would be doing a lot better than it is at the moment. If, as a result of their long history, they are actually in the process of developing that magic bullet there will be nothing to stop them using it as long as their car remains within the specifications. The only thing the cap will prevent them doing is spending more money than anyone else.

Yes, the onus is on new teams to compete against established teams and, like everybody else, they've got to figure out how to build a competitive car within the regulations - which are the same for all teams. The only advantage that established teams are losing (and not all of them will be losing it because it's not an advantage they all enjoy) is the ability to throw almost unlimited amounts of money at their F1 effort. In my view that's not a bad thing.

 

Where would Brawn be with out the Mega bucks Honda spent on development?

 

Back of the grid.

 

That's defeatist, isn't it? Why would you wish Ferrari to leave F1? I wish F1 to fix the rules. I would watch F1 without Ferrari, but it wouldn't be the same. If Ferrari does go, you can be sure it won't be just them.

OTOH, it does set Ferrari up for a LMS bid. Silver lining I guess.

 

F1 has been so damn boring in the last 5 years....I don't even watch it much anymore. The GP2 support races are AMAZING and a total blast to watch. Tons of passing and late braking and hardcharging right up to the last turn of the last lap.

I would love to see Ferrari jump into LeMans sportscar racing like in the heady days of the 60's and 70's when the major manufacturers raced head-to-head for dominance in sportscars. Let's see if Ferrari is up to challenge of running with GM-based race cars, Porsche, Audi, BMW, etc. in street-based cars (OK, that's a very loose definition of street car). At least in the LeMans series you get REAL racing in each of the classes.

So, for my vote, I'm happy to see Ferrari leave F1 (if they actually live up to their threat). Let the Bernie and MAx show go on without them (and they will...there is too much money in it for F1 not to survive). They can and will live without Ferrari and both entities could be better off. Let Ferrari stay away for 5 years and play in another series and then let's see where it all shakes out.

Remember....change is good.

 

wHAT'S NEXT? pROBABLY A 1 TO 2 year haitus,with a return season that brings a WCC.2012.A couple of LeMAns wins wont be bad.

 

oh i don't know. The 2008 championship was decided in the last race at the last turn. It doesn't get closer than that. OK, so the fix was in, which altered results to get to that point, but still. 2009 has been fantastic so far.

GP2 is pretty killer. I don't like the aggressive mistakes (carnage) but otherwise it's quite good.

 

Exactly. I think all the underlying saddness i feel, is the possible breaking the bonds of the 60 years of participation and committment in F1. But then again if it is no longer the F1 Ferrari wants to compete in. I support it. Settling for anything but excellence is disheartening in it self. Why play? Past achievements, just like college credits, never goes away, you can use them later.

 

I doubt that they'd be anywhere period. The idea that a salary cap will create more Brawns is foolish. Does anyone think that Ross Brawn would have entered F1 with anything less than a fully developed (read mega-buck) car ready to sit at the pointy end of the grid?