Rising kerb weights - what happened to 'progress'?

Whoops, meant rather "the 430 is a heavier than a 308"....by about 175kg! Have you ever picked up a power seat? It's heavy!

 

I'm not at home now where I can look it up but the QV weight you are quoting is Euro and most likely a dry weight as well. I had a QV GTB that the previous owner put on a certified scale and it was just short of 3200 lbs. GTS's weigh a little more. US 430's are slightly less.

Dave

 

That penalty and the engine output on US cars is why these days a US spec 308 is considered a slow car.

 

bingo

true

making a bigger car with more amenities

 

I hope you're right.

I'd love to see a return to the 308 sizes for Ferraris. That would be awesome. Like an Exige sized Ferrari. They'd be lighter but with less horsepower/torque but be just as fun and fast. Too bad "progress' often means stifling it! Look at how fat Ferraris have become, in the name of comfort, safety, and technology.

 

I'd love to see that too but selling a car at the Ferrari price point without all the bells and whistles is tough.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

If the car excells at where it needs to, it should sell. Ferrari points out that they approach a new market segment with the California, but they seem to be oblivious to the segment they may have lost, that of the true sportscar buyer.

 

I think you mean "the purist" which may not be the same thing.

 

even one of the best concepts out there, the Mini Cooper could use a little trimming imo. But, it is a practical car, economical, fast and fun. Amazing that they haven't figured out they should build a 'base' model, strip out all the electronic jumk.

 

Hi Dave,

I'm not following you. Are you suggesting that the standard 430 weighs less than a 308?

The standard 430 weighs somewhat more than a 308 (euro or us) if you look at the basic reference sources. As suggested above the delta is somewhere between 100 and 200kg.

Start with something simple like wikipedia or Road & Track archives for background data.

 

That's a marketing decision. Ze Germans (BMW) want people to see Mini as an entry-level BMW, and so they push the whizbang electronics & all the creature comforts -- the same sort of thing they'll get when (if?) they step up to a BMW. Also, it helps push the price into 3-series territory, making the transition all the easier.

Going small & frugal -- without all the junk -- would work against the 'image' they've cultivated.

Ironically, as little as 20 years ago, BMW held to the philosophy you describe: basic cars, good build: choose your motor size.

 

Unfortunately progress has come to mean cars having 'office' and other amenities in addition to protection from 'stupidity'. the sole function of an automobile is transportation. the car and cell phone have developed into something that we really do not need in their present form, but that would buck 'the dream' concept of everyone needs more. .....and more......etc.

basic car for transport. other 'toys' for speed, shows.

phones with wires, or cell phone blockers in all public places!

 

OK. I'm home now and I've checked sources.

From my owners manuals:

1989 328 GTB 3140.
2005 F430 3240.

The 328 manual notes that GTS's are 3170. 328's are a little lighter than steel 308's.

From Bluemel's original Ferrari V8:

US 308 QV GTS 3229. He claims the Euro is 2956 but also lists it under dry weight. He has 328 weights 6-7 lbs lighter than the manuals. I don't know if this is also true for 308's.

The 430 holds a lot more fuel than the 308. If you equalize that, weights would be virtually identical or the 308 a few pounds more.

Perhaps 308 owners can post weights from their manuals. I'd especially like to see Euro weights. Must be "wet" weights.

Dave

 

Thanks Dave. Good data points there.

That's quite a difference between the euro and US spec (realizing the euro number is dry which obviously makes quite a difference...). I would have thought the 308 would be considerably lighter than the 430 despite some of the weight saving efforts in the 430. Some ref sources indicate a bigger delta, some not so much - as usual there's some difference of opinion!