348 Fuel Smell

Excellent detective work, will check mine now.....

 

Bcwawright is test fitting the prototype replacement sleeve we are making this AM if we can get him outy of bed....something about its chilly down there....Geeez! I am having this sleeve made in the same material that the Marine fuel hose liner is made from, this is a tried and proven proprietary material and not the same old rubber that failed.

Do not let your guard down with the OEM replacements, the fuel will eat them away once again and you will be back where you started as they are made of the same rubber that failed. Make sure you replace the sleeves on both ends of the plastic tube and both of the small ones on the plastic vent tube connected to the fill neck. If one failed, they are all near and at least you are resetting the rot-clock back to zero with the OEM parts. I was seeing these fail 7-8 years ago but at the time I did not understand what I was seeing, now I do.

I had a decision to make on these regarding the construction method. In small quantities we can hand build them or if required due to demand we have to build a mold. The hand built pieces are not as pretty as molded parts but cosmetics are of no concern to me, function is my only focus here. Piece cost comes down with a mold but the front end costs rise greatly. I decided to go with hand built in small quantities to see if there was any interest as to properly fix this problem costs a good deal more than $5.00. The plastic tubes will not take many removal/replacement cylcles before they too fail so I figured it was time to make a one time fix/solution for this failure area and provide proper clamps that will not cause failures but prevent them.

I made this my first priority in the fuel components as this is the one area that represents a VERY big safety issue. When the sleeve to the fuel tank end fails the raw fuel is sloshed directly on to the header....that cant be good and is no better than an engine bay filled with volitle fumes. Upside is the same size sleeves are required for many models from the 348/355/T/512 to the 360's and CS's which means I do not have to make numerous sizes which is not the case with the in-tank components that are now in production.

Dave

 

Well I'm out of bed but need COFFEE to get me going...

Yes, this is a critical part for safety reasons and the OEM stuff..well it's going to go bad again just like the first one's. A must to replace at main fill and vent tubes...a big 10-4 buddy on those plastic hoses not being able to hold-up from repeated removal and installation.

 

Great find. I have a similar occasional fuel vapor smell and was wondering where it came from.

Thanks,
Kai

 

Nice work Drew!

I will be sure to check mine asap. I dont recall having a fuel smell in my car, but it wont hurt to repair or replace them.

 

...........feel the smell that is.

However only when I fill her up.........and then only for 20 miles or so...........thought it might have something to do with an overflow valve or something.

I am taking the gear box out so I can check quite easily.

Thanks

//B//

 

Thanks for the heads up. I had a very light fuel smell when working just in front of the left rear wheel, just below the filler the other day. I check the engine fuel lines and didn't find anything. I beleive it may be a good idea to check the filler now!

--Mike

 

That would be the area.

Easiest to identify when the fuel system is pressurized with a regulated smoke machine using Nitrogen as the pressure source. Not many have these expensive testers in the garage at home but this is how we test them in the shop.

Dave

 

I noticed a fuel smell and ran my finger all along the fuel lines, around the filters and fp regulators, rails, tank, and fuel filler line...stopping to smell my finger every so often. Finally found the fuel smell after wiping around the top of the inner fuel filler line.

It took some surprising effort to remove that line. I pulled the gasket upwards while pushing the filler line down to finally get it. Since I was in there, I pulled off the whole fuel filler line to inspect, and then replace, the lower gasket as well.

The lower gasket was and is fine, though it is starting to get brittle. Since Daniel at Ricambi sent me two gaskets and since I already had the fuel filler line off, naturally I replaced both the upper and lower (identical) fuel filler gaskets.

Here's what the old gaskets look like:
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Funny coincidence - I filled up last weekend and started to notice strong fuel odors at times. I've put 100 miles on and still get it from time to time - checked fuel lines and all OK - going to check this one right away.

Thanks guys!

 

I too had a fuel smell problem but I resolved it tonight... it ended up being the two tank vents as well as the vent on the filler neck.

The fill hose I had replaced last month with heavy-duty rubber hose but I still had those vents leaking which caused a faint smell when the tank was near full.

Here's a link to how I found the problem... I came up with the idea based on Dave Helms post in this thread... I had no smoke machine nor any nitrogen so I improvised.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138721348&postcount=255

DF

 

Clever debugging!

 

Good catch but VERY DANGEROUS.

The aluminum tank will balloon and bulge at about 5PSI and run the risk of splitting a seam. Pumping oxygen into the tank will force out vapors that are extremely volatile...just about the right AFR for combustion from just about any ignition source.
If you feel it nessesary to do it this way...get it outside and use an old style bicycle tire pump with an accurate gauge on it, even at that is is highly suggested to use an inert gas to reduce the risk of explosion.... it is a VERY REAL RISK.

The economy has now allowed me to get better pricing on the tooling costs for the fuel system parts. They are now underway along with molded hoses for the cooling system of various models made to the same spec as our straight cooling system hoses. In the next year or so we will see 15% alcohol in the fuel (currently at 10% max and you can see what that is doing) if any of the threats come to pass (bet on it) and replacing these rubber parts with the OEM will be considered a short term fix at best. I finally was able to get a major insurance company to review my fuel research data, manufacturing process and the history and Military/Coast Guard partnerships my manufacturer has with them, finally they understood what we have been doing and why. We finally got insurance coverage for our fuel component product line and are in the finishing process of having that set up now. We have all of the large hose sizes in stock (55mm, 35mm, 16mm) and have identified excellent hose and clamps for the small sizes and are just waiting for the proper paperwork to be finalized in the next few days. Molds for the fuel system fill neck sleeves and pump gators are being cut right now as we have worked out the technology to mold these in the same material as our fuel system hose liner which has a proven 20 yr track record.

In the next few days there will be a choice available. They will not be cheap but they will be safe and will last with what ever we are forced to pump in the tanks in the future. I have been working on a Q&A page for the website so questions can be answered and owners can understand what we are all dealing with. Everything we are making is MADE IN USA so quality is not in question and it has already made a difference to a hand full of laid off folks.... even the smallest efforts make a difference these days, it has to start somewhere.

 

Thanks Dave, I am pushing all my customers to replace fuel hoses and lines as well as coolant and especially brake hoses. I have always had a 10 year change recomendation for brake hoses, 3 years for the braided.

 

Hey Dave,

For the record, no pressure was building as the air was escaping immediately and I had set my regulator at 10psi (I thought 10 psi would have been OK)... but you're right, it did force out vapors and it never occurred to me that these could have ignited. Definitely something to consider should someone else attempt this.

DF

 

My latest fuel smell issue was caused by a crack in the fuel tank itself.

Apparently the tank had rubbed against the firewall sufficient enough to create a hairline crack that seeped out gases when things got hot. There was no fuel dripping but just an obnoxious fuel smell in my garage and it was wafting into the cabin when driving with windows down.

After dropping the fuel tank out we found the crack and had it fixed.

Kai

 

Ok, gotta ask:

1. Why doesn't this seem to be a problem for the Mondial Ts?.....mine is older than the 348 in design/parts, and I'm sure Rifledriver checked that area, but just wondering since essentially a same/similar setup as the 348 why this doesn't seem to be a problem....or is it?

2. With even the slightest of odor, I'm thinking fire in that area. Have anyone any record of such accidents happen, due to that breakdown problem.

thanks

rik

 

In my case, the fuel smell was only present when the gas tank was overfilled up into the fuel filler neck. Only the top gasket was cracked (well, split in two parts, really). Igniting such vapors out in the open is possible, but probably happens about as often as the oil industry gets a vapor fire out in the open at gas stations (typically due to static electricity discharges or some wild-eyed idiot smoking a cig while gassing up).

To me, the main reason to fix the vapor leak was because the vapor leak could mask a real fuel leak somewhere else in the future. Sure, it's good to fix the vapor leak to correct the fuel smell, but there are more dangerous fuel leaks to get than mere temporary vapors out of the fuel filler neck.

Still, some caution is in order with vapors as anyone who has worked around a used, "empty" fuel tank or fuel pump will attest!

Fortunately, replacing the inexpensive gaskets completely cured my fuel smell issue. Well, until age and alcohol in the new fuel work their planned destruction over time.

 

Me too!

 

thanks no doubt.


still wondering on the Mondial T's version of the 348....I'm not getting that problem....thinking perhaps some persons using incorrect or stronger fuel combo, like in racing.

r

 

Different design, you have hose couplings on an aluminum tube rather than rubber sleeves and a plastic tube.

Mondial T Coupe photo'd
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thanks for the good reply. Seems Ferrari tried to cut corners again during production. Example: Noticed also that the side strakes on the first year of Mondial T's were Al/metal and later made of plastic. Guessing they did the same on other parts.

rik