Dino coupe #01832 | Page 2 | FerrariChat
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Dino coupe #01832

Discussion in '206/246' started by champtc, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #26 champtc, May 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    More done today- I only have the inner fenders left. I spoke to OMGJON and he said that he was able to merely lift the edge of the inner fibreglass fender from the rear wheel arch lip without cutting anything and remove the inner panel. I had thought there were rivets or something holding it to the arch. I will get to it in the next day or two and hopefully be finished (20 hours so far). I am enclosing pics of the trunk area...stay tuned!
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  2. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #27 champtc, May 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. Jon Hansen

    Jon Hansen Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2007
    509
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Full Name:
    Jon Hansen
    #28 Jon Hansen, May 29, 2009
    Well done Tom.

    Now it's time to take the icing off the birthday cake and see what flavor you have under the paint. Hopefully you won't have too many surprises (like the hood) as it looks real solid.

    Can your painter take the car directly from the blaster now? That would be great so you don't have to spray the metal with preservative.
    That stuff will most likely all need to come off before priming, so your labor costs will be lower if you can go straight to primer right after blasting.

    Thanks for the pics. I'll have to get cracking on your door jamb pieces soon.
     
  4. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #29 champtc, May 30, 2009
    Jon- don't worry about those jamb pieces as I am in no hurry. My body man wont be able to get to this for a while so I will have to put that Gibbs stuff on the car while in bare metal. I am told it is great and works well- we will see. From this point on I have to pick up the heads from the machine shop as there was some corrosion like daveikj's. They told me that if the head gasket covered the corrosion spots you didn't have to weld & fill em in but I wanted it done anyway. I have a bunch of engine parts to order and I am waiting for my new pistons. I will put the engine back together over the summer and continue to finish the small parts as most everything else is done. I had Maserati Partsource make me up some new engine mounts and the sample he sent was perfect. I will run the engine on the stand when it is all done. So it is moving along. Thanks for the encouragement!!
     
  5. omgjon

    omgjon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 13, 2005
    3,568
    Spicewood, Texas
    Full Name:
    Jon Gunderson
    #30 omgjon, May 30, 2009
    Great job. You're going to be happy you went where most won't go. Fantastic!
     
  6. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #31 champtc, Jun 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    well- I have about 1/4 of the car stripped and a few details are beginning to emerge. I am glad I have gone this far as the car needs a redo on some of the body areas. The sills were (poorly) replaced,bondo in the back, the front was hit & some poor metal work was done. I will post more pics as they get further along....
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  7. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #32 champtc, Jun 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well- all the paint & undercoat is off the car body, frame & interior now. The car will be grit blasted selectively to remove the rust. It will then be primed and then put away until the body guy can get to it. You will see lots of patches & evidence of body damage as the front was cut & repaired. There are two holes in the roof and at one point it may have had a front then a rear antenna. So it is all revealed now.
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  8. philt68

    philt68 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
    969
    new york city
    #33 philt68, Jun 11, 2009
    that is bloody fascinating...i hate to think what might be lurking underneath the skin of my car..
     
  9. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2008
    1,842
    Western NY
    Full Name:
    Fred
    #34 2GT, Jun 12, 2009
    When my red Dino, 03964, was stripped for repainting, I was amazed at the thinness of the body between the headlights and the front wheels. My body man welded in a washer behind the bumper mounting hole to brace the fender when the left front bumper was reattached. Looking at all the pictures of various members' cars in bare steel, with the front marker lights out, it is shocking how dainty the fenders appear. Fred
     
  10. Argento

    Argento Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2005
    531
    UK
    Full Name:
    Argentium
    #35 Argento, Jun 12, 2009
    You're doing a fine job TC?,

    01832 is the Ex Urs Fassler Car, Reg ZH 94896, Zurich - Also Albert Vicentini, is it not ?

    Argento
     
  11. Jon Hansen

    Jon Hansen Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2007
    509
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Full Name:
    Jon Hansen
    #36 Jon Hansen, Jun 12, 2009
    Tom, How does the blaster get to all the underside areas if the body is not on a rotisserie? ( is it? )

    I would love to see someone do an anti corrosion dip of the entire chassis and body assembly after all the metal work was finished.
     
  12. Jon Hansen

    Jon Hansen Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2007
    509
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Full Name:
    Jon Hansen
    #37 Jon Hansen, Jun 12, 2009
    Tom,
    Did the Dino emblem recess get left off the nose? I don't see it.
     
  13. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #38 champtc, Jun 16, 2009
    Argento- I do not know of those two owners. In fact the history of this car is mostly unknown to me pre its debut in the US. If you have any contact info please let me know. You can PM me or email me at [email protected] I would REALLY like to contact any previous owners. Thanks
    Jon- The car was hit hard in the front & the clip replaced. They did not make the recess for the Dino emblem. The car was lifted on a hydraulic lift and the underside was done. The areas of rust (there are many) will be hit carefully with grit and then it will all get primed right after to avoid flash rust. As you know I considered putting that Gibbs product on which protects bare metal but I got my body guy (a pro) to have another guy do the primer as he was not able to schedule it for his shop. Hopefully I get it back friday or next week primed & waiting for paint. Everything that you advised about blasting etc was dead on. Thanks for the info
     
  14. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #39 champtc, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, the Dino recently came home. I had it all plastic media blasted, then the rust got grit blasted & finally the whole thing was primed. The car has had some pretty significant rust issues in the past. The lower rear quarter panels (under the trunk) had the bottom half cut out & a rough patch poorly welded on- both sides!! It was then bondo'd over. The center tube where the radiator cooling hoses go through had partially rusted as the aluminum tubes had corroded and water sat in the insulation packing & just rusted it out. The sills and forward "A" pillars had been worked on as well. I am happy that I will be starting fresh. I have a great body guy that will do a marvelous job so I am looking forward to slowly & correctly restoring this one. I won't be a slave to originality where I think I can make sensible upgrades though. This weekend it goes under a cover, up on the rack & will be quiet for a while. I pick up the block & heads next week and will focus on putting the motor together over the summer.
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  15. omgjon

    omgjon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 13, 2005
    3,568
    Spicewood, Texas
    Full Name:
    Jon Gunderson
    #40 omgjon, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. russh

    russh Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 30, 2001
    146
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Russell Hazarian
    #41 russh, Jun 27, 2009
    Hi, I have enjoyed reading and watching your 1971 euro restoration. I have a 1971 euro that I am slowly restoring and I have the same rust problem with the lower rear quarter panels. I was really interested to see how you removed the inner trunk liner. I noticed that you cut your inner trunk liner to remove it from the trunk. The outer ends of the inner trunk panel are slanted and I thought it must have been done for some intentional purpose. When I went to remove mine, I determined that the only way it could possibly be removed in one piece was if you removed the inner fender panels first. I removed the fiberglass strip that covers the rivets and separated the inner fender panels from the inner trunk liner. Once the inner fender panels are removed, this creates just enough space so that the inner trunk panel can be turned and tilted enough to remove diagonally out of the trunk. I thought that I would pass this information along in case someone else is going to remove this panel. It seems that the series E had a redesigned trunk area which can be removed more easily.
     
  17. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #42 champtc, Jun 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jon - I think you will finish in this endeavor long before me! My body guy can't even get near this for several months. I will be going to school on you and I thank you for all of your efforts!
    RRush- I took detailed photos of the rear trunk area & inner fender liners. I agree with you that the layout is slightly different than in Jon's Dino. I counted 14 rivets on mine and just could not have separated it from the trunk floor without cutting it. I also was not able to lift the entire inner fender without cutting it too in half. I found out why later- a patch had been put in over the original metal which would not let it get free. In retrospect I would have taken all this out in my garage before it went to the stripper and I likely could have done it without cutting the fibreglass. I have a lift but the rotisserie is the real way to go. I guess you just work with what you have and I am happy that I did it. If I were to do it again I may have used a sharpened & sturdy putty knife to silde under the fibreglass and chisel the rivets in half. It was a tough job absolutely no doubt about it but now since a few of us have done it we can make it easier for the next guy. We would all be interested to see pics of your restoration...what # is your GT? Good luck
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  18. daviekj

    daviekj Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2008
    484
    UK
    #43 daviekj, Jun 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Champtc,
    While I had the inner arches out I replaced the threaded steel mounting plates with stainless ones. Used he orignals as patterns, which is why they look a bit asymetrical. Several of the originls had crossed threads which was rather anoying. I have had the inner panels off around 5 times and all goes back nicely now. Worth checking the fibreglass panel alignments while everything is out.
    Kevin
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  19. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #44 champtc, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well- I ordered all my engine parts form Superformance in UK last Thursday and at the same time I ordered some stuff from Eastwood in PA. The Superformance stuff showed up bright & early on Monday & the Eastwood stuff (5 or 6 hour drive away) showed up today (Wednesday)!!. They sure have speedy service from the UK. I can't get domestic stuff that fast!! In any case all of my parts are here. I am enclosing a picture of the new harmonic balancer and what an improvement - see previous post- on the old one. I have the heads all done & the block bored to 93mm for the Arias pistons that I had made. I will post pics once I start to put this back together. However I am very excited to get the motor back together and get things going!!
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  20. surface master

    surface master Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Sep 14, 2009
    271
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Steve N. Kouracos
    #45 surface master, Nov 10, 2009
    Tom. I can tell you have been very busy! By the way I see it through the pics, you have a very nice and solid car! It looks like the parts that need attention are only sheet metal areas. Are all the tubes solid, and how hard was it hit in the front? do you think it will measure out correctly?

    I did see some brass in some of the old repairs, that will all have to come out as well. nothing sticks to brass and it will bubble or blister after one year.
    Was the metal etched before the primmer.. and did you use a two part epoxy primmer?

    You said that you want to move slowly. If I can give you the best edvise. Once you start the body and paint you must move quickly because fillers & primmers act like a sponge and that when contamination sets and sucks right back down to the metal. Not good for down the road.

    I would like to surface and paint your Dino, but I do not want to take a job away from your guy.But if he can not deliver in your time frame and standers, please concider sending me your Dino for this segment.

    Thanks,

    Steve
     
  21. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    #46 jselevan, Nov 10, 2009
    Tom - as per our conversation, there are a number of typographical errors (or calculation errors) in Angelo Wallace's Work Shop Manual.

    I strongly suggest that you peruse the following web pages. These represent a few representative examples of Metric Torque Specification Tables, which are based on mechanical engineering references and are standard for all fastener design.

    http://www.tpub.com/content/bridges/TM-55-1945-205-24-4/css/TM-55-1945-205-24-4_746.htm

    http://www.cncexpo.com/MetricBoltTorque.aspx

    http://www.cncexpo.com/MetricBoltTorque.aspx

    The last one is, perhaps, the most practical vis-a-vis ranges of bolt diameter and thread pitch. However, it only lists values in Newton-meters, and conversion to pound-feet will be necessary if that is what you are accustomed to.

    Note also that most tables suggest values on a dry, unlubricated bolts and nuts. Some list alternative values when lubricated. As far a lock tight or equivalent for rod big end studs, I generally do apply lock tight, but I am likely making myself feel good for no good reason. These are tapered studs, and at the proper torque should be self locking.

    BTW - I did find a Blackberry application for $2.98 that provides metric torque values for fasteners.

    Jim S.
     
  22. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #47 champtc, Nov 11, 2009
    Jim- thanks - you are helpful as always. I will print them off & hopefully see the machinist today to put the bottom end together. As you know it is an iterative process with these things. I was thinking that someone creative could make a few bucks if they could sell an assortment of nuts with the yellow colored plastic locking in them (correct shade) in the appropriate sizes & strengths for people to replace missing ones on their Dino's. I cant believe it would be that tough- maybe someone has! In any case I will let you know what happens today- thanks again!!
     
  23. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #48 champtc, Nov 11, 2009
    Ok- well today I spent some time at the machine shop putting the bottom end together. However a few questions have surfaced. The torque specifications in Wallace's book are known to be off but after the big help of JS we found that the torque for the main bearing caps are 11kg which equals 80 ft/lbs in the book which does not say dry or lubed...the official ferrari engine tightening torque sheet says 80 and other industry tech specification sheets say 99 and it all depends which class of bolt (stud) it is- an 8.8 or a 10.9. We tightened them to 90 lbs lubed and all settled in except one at the very front of the engine. We have it 80+ and kept tightenening it ( a click torque wrench) and no luck. We got nervous & stopped...so what class are these studs to the main caps (and same question for the connecting rods as those are next)- lubed? In short what are the correct torque specifications for the main caps & rod ends lubed (in ft/lbs)?? Next question- the pistons have been replaced by new Arias pistons. The book explains that the larger indentation on the top of the piston must be pointed toward the outside of the block. That makes sense...however the piston rod itself has an oil hole (squirter) at the base just above where the big end bearings go. It is one one side only- so does this hole face forward toward the pulley or rearward toward the flywheel? The book is ambiguous about it. I hope to finish putting the pistons in on friday - so all help appreciated!! Thnx
     
  24. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    #49 jselevan, Nov 11, 2009
    Tom - another way of asking the question, which I do not know the answer to, is whether the number stamped on the connecting rod and its mating cap is to be located inboard or outboard.

    Jim S.
     
  25. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #50 champtc, Nov 12, 2009
    I re- read Wallace book (pg 40) and it says "Assemble pistons with their individual connecting rods according to the diagram in fig 8 so that the exhaust valve indentation on the piston top points to the outside part of the engine block and the numbers stamped on the connecting rod and its bearing cap. So a big run- on sentence which is ambiguous (at least to me)...just not sure which is correct...
     
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