This whole thing will revolve around the TV rights (money). If FOTA can reassuringly deliver the show without a contractual problem then FOM/FIA/BernieMax are sunk.
You have not been following the same news I have. From a two tier system we have gone to what was recently proposed by the FIA, seems like a big change to me. From talk of budget cap compromise, to back tracking, I have not seen much movement on the part of FOTA. Status quo. If you really want to talk about circles, then you are talking FOTA. That is disppointing, especially since someone like Ross Brawn is involved. Look Clint, I am looking at this as a business negotiation. I judge both sides with equal disdain and an attempted indifference, I can not understand how anyone can think that either side in this situation cares about the sport, or you and me as fans....its all about power. I am more inclined to think this is all BS on the part of FOTA. I predict that the FIA's next move is to say, OK, good luck. That's what I would do. Because I realize how hard and how expensive it would be to start a new series. I also would realize there are contracts and legal issues that will make the breakaway series even more difficult. I voice my opinion, not a reason to make this personal.
Same gist from FOTA site's latest and greatest announcement http://www.teamsassociation.org/press-release/2009-06-19/press-release Regardless if it's the biggest bluff in 60 years or no, judging by the smiles around this place, it looks like the Long March under the Totalitarian is finally over, aye?
That's fine Ron. Once again I disagree. Oh, and just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm getting personal.
I'm a relative newbie but one thing I know is contracts and legal issues gaurantee little more than litigation- which is rarely a quick process. Add public comments which could be interpreted as acquiesence and things get that much more muddled.
. All I care about is the facts. Simon, the teams already get 47% of the TV revenue. Bernie gets less than I believe 23%. Blame Bernie for the USGP and Canada, the FIA has nothing to do with this. But then, I ask where would F1 be today if not for Ecclestone? Its the #1 most watched TV sport, because of a certain greedy individual's contracts. Ferrari's involvement didn't do much for the sport until Bernie made it commercial. And most of the current team principals have become wealthy because of Bernie. Sort of a double edged sword. Without Ecclestone's greed, F1 would not have become the commercial success it is today. Except for the pygmy comments, these are the same words almost verbatim used to describe Tony George. I am not physically perfect, so I do not understand the physical references to another's stature. As for the rules changes, time to follow the true sequence of events. This is not an attempt to support Mosley and his methods, he is wrong, but it is an attempt to place what is now FOTA in their proper place. Up until now, they have been disinterested, uninvolved, apathetic, whatever words you want to describe THE FACT that the team teams have had many opportunities to become involved, yet until push came to shove, nothing happened. Ferrari had a veto right, yet why did not use it when they had a chance?
Ron, You're still missing the point. It's about GOVERNANCE. Always has been. FOTA is unwilling to let Max and the FIA dictate to them the rules and cause them to spend huge amounts of money on an uncertain result (which can be changed at any time by the FIA). They want solid GOVERNANCE. Everything else is a non-issue. Two tiers was dropped a long time ago. They both want to save money, just have different ideas on how to get there. Those were all non-issues. The real issue was governance. And all the FIA offered was "come back unconditionally and we'll talk" followed by "we need unanimous agreement of the teams to change the rules" (and of course that includes the 3 new teams that are under his thumb). That was a totally unsuitable offer. If I am buying your car, and my concern is that the engine compression is shot to hell, it doesn't matter how many times you tell me you'll throw in free floor mats - if you're not addressing my real concern, you're not really compromising at all. FOTA told them from the get-go what this was about. It was about governance. The FIA chose to do nothing on that. It doesn't matter how much they moved on other line items - those other line items are irrelevant because they were easily solvable. The FIA ignored the main requirement, and so FOTA had no choice but to bail out. It doesn't matter one bit what compromises the FIA offers - so long as they retain the right to impose any rules they see fit upon the teams, nothing else matters. They can promise anything they want then change the rules tomorrow. That is why governance is the only real issue here, and that is why the FIA was willing to "compromise" on everything except governance.
So each team (10) gets 4.7% on average... and Bernie get's less than 23%... Wow... now I see how equitable it is! Ron, no one denies what B.E. has done for F1... but do you honestly believe F1 is in a better state today than a decade ago? At some point, the sport of F1, was not the most important thing to B.E.
EXACTLY!! This makes complete sense....unless you side with the FIA and Max. Then, it still makes sense but you just don't want to admit it.
Tifosiron, you couldn't be more wrong. This is much, much different than the Cart/IRL break up. IRL succeeded because the preceding Cart series really only had ONE single main attraction...the Indy 500. When IRL took that, Cart eventually folded. In this case, FOTA will have everything of value. The big teams, big drivers and the BIG event, Monaco (remember, HRH Prince Albert said that upon a breakaway from F1, Monaco would follow Ferrari). F1 would be left with nothing. FOTA would tie up many of the circuits that F1 has foolishly discarded, like Indy, Montreal, Silverstone, and no doubt many of the other main venues who would claim breach of contract against F1 and join with FOTA. As for blame, Max is not only self-destructive, he is destructive in personality and manner when it comes to managing his sport. This eventuality has been coming for a long, long time. When F1 'stole' $100million from McLaren last year, I felt that it was only a matter of time before the arrogance and greed of Max and Bernie would lead the sport to ruin. This is actually the best thing that could have happened for the future of Formula (insert preferred title here). As for your suggestion that Max had agreed to 'compromise' and that it was now up to FOTA to respond, ...you're kidding right? Max's compromise was telling FOTA to rescind their conditional entries and he would 'consider' amending his budget demands. That would have been a futile course of action which would have allowed Max to completely disregard FOTA's concerns. It seems you can't see the reality of the situation. The only alternative strategy is that FOTA know that announcing their serious intent to form their own series is designed to force FIA to eject Max. If they achieve that, then FOTA still win their main goal. If not, they will move on, and Max will be king of nothing...
I think those that are comparing this to the split between CART and the IRL are missing the mark. This is much more akin to 1978, when CART split from USAC. The teams became disenchanted with the sanctioning body, and went their own way. Very successfully. Of course, this is a different day and age, and there's a lot more money/power at stake. But in the end, I still think it is FOTA that are holding the cards. Interesting times... - Eric
Incorrect. Bernie gets around 50%, the teams get around 50% And Bernie's involvement didn't do much for the sport after the big teams started dumping billions in. And what did they get out of it? Bernie did a lot to make it popular earlier on, but I don't think he's done much of anything in the past 15+ years, it was the teams investments that made it happen. Nope. Vijay Mallya was already a billionaire. So was Dieter Matshechitz (sp?). Mario Theissen is a corporate guy, so is John Howett, so is Luca who certainly didn't "get rich" off F1. Other than Frank Williams, and Whitmarsh, who in the current paddock got rich off F1? Since most of them were rich before or from other ventures, clearly it's untrue that "most of the current team principals have become wealthy because of Bernie" Nope. The teams have been subject to the whims of the FIA. They did not have appropriate governance. Now they will get it. Good. About time.
Ron's numbers are incorrect. Bernie gets around half, the teams get around half. The FIA does not get money from the commercial side of F1, other than the money they get for having sold the rights. And it is an amazingly inequitable split. It is far in excess (in Bernie's favor) of any other agreement for commercialization of a sporting series. IMO it was arrived at in a very underhanded and suspicious way with a large payment going from Bernie to Max, shortly before a 100-year deal was agreed to that sold the F1 rights for literally fractions of a penny on the dollar.
I am not a button fan but it is kinda of sad that button will be the last king of a crumbling empire. FOTA has all the money so if they really want to split they will. I think indy and montreal would be back on the calender and I would love to see watkins glenn even more than indy. I think BrawnGP's title sponcer should be all the FOTA teams advertising the new series!
Seems to me Max's 'compromises' are questionable. He uses them as bargaining chips in an attempt to end up with what was really important to him all along.
+1 FOTA can really preempt any FIA move to continue being viable by immediately signing up Lola and ProDrive. I also wonder about Force India. Surely Mallya could just set up a new team called "Speed India" or something to compete in the new series, then have his sponsors agree to sponsor that outfit and not Force India. Then he declares FI bankrupt and unable to compete in the '10 F1 season. What's Max going to do? Nothing.
