308 V12 conversion begins

It measures a cam lobe. There are a couple versions of this type machine, but you put the cam in and the machine rotates it while measuring the lift. You get a printout of lift vs angle in 1 degree steps. It’s really the only way to know for sure what the cam actually is. You can make a pretty good guess of what the cam is from the lift, .050” duration and .006” duration (seat to seat), but it’s still a guess and there can be significant differences in 2 cams with what appear to be the same specs and that can result in 10% + variations in engine hp from what appeared to be the same cams.

A machine like a cam doctor takes the guess work out of the lobe shape. Then the simulation software imports that lobe shape and takes most of the guess work out of how the cam will act in the engine. So once the cam guy finds a couple options that look like they are right I’ll have him grind a test lobe and get them measure and plugged into dynomation and see what works the best.

My how engine building has changed in the past 10-15 years…….

 

I spent some time looking over the manual and software for the new haltech platinum 2000 sport….and I was a little disappointed. The first version out was the “platinum 350Z pro” and it has some cool stuff, but as the name implies the basic set-up is factory configured for the 350Z and that can’t be changed.

I expected the generic version to have all the cool stuff and be configurable….I expected wrong. It has no wide band O2 (it will accept input from an external controller), no injector trim tables, no traction control features….it’s appears to be not really new at all but more like an E11V3 as it’s basically an E11V2 with some minor upgrades.

They have done a lot of work on the software and it’s truly windows software now. It connects by a USB not a serial port that has been nearly impossible to get on a laptop for 10 years now so that’s all good. I just can’t understand why the cool stuff is out though….unless they are planning to offer it as a Platinum 2000 PRO vs the entry level “sport” version.

I’m back to not having a clear ECU plan. The best option is probably 2 motec M800s (at$3k each) then both fitted with the $500 ignition expanders, the $500 12 injector enable, the $750 wide-band O2 enable, the $500 data log enable and the $500 traction control enable and then 12 $50 ignition modules bringing the grant total to a completely unacceptable $11100. Oh I forgot about $1000 in plugs and cables. This is not going to happen.

The haltechs option is still available but I’m not as happier any more. I was really looking forward to injector trim tables but the bigger concern though is 4 exhaust headers and only 2 O2 sensors means The Ecus will only be seeing ½ the picture in closed loop mode. Also I have to run distributors which isn’t terrible and looks period correct but means I have to make something up or buy them (my heads came with nothing). So I’m looking at 2 ECUs at $1800 each, 2 ignition modules at $50 each or more likely a couple $300 MSD or similar boxes, and 2 wide-band O2 divers at $500 each making this about a $5200 option.

The VEMS option is still there too. 3 ecus would give me enough drivers, but bugger the closed loop operation because I will have 4 exhaust systems so ecus would be sharing headers making O2 reading meaningless. I would have to use 4 of them at $600 each to get 4 wide-band o2 sensors and keep separate control of the separate header groups . Again I need say $1000 in plugs and cables but it has enough built in ignition modules for true direct-fire coil on plug and the total is $3400. The maps are now 14x16 which should be enough to get a good tune, but it’s a concern as motec is 22x40 and haltech is 32x32….a naturally aspirated engine less points are required so 14x16 is probably enough.

I’m hoping I’ll be needing to make a decision next spring……..

 

I just did. 8 fuel, 8 ignition channels. I'd need 4 of them.

 

Yeh….there are a lot of things that would have been easier, like a manned mission to mars for example

The easy way to get a v12 308 is a TR drive train I think. You lose the trunk but save 2-3 years of work.

 

Just looked and it doesn't seem to be really configured in a way that would handle what I want to do.

The problem is I'm asking for an awful lot here and there are not a lot of units flexible enough to do what I want to do. Most units aim at feature that cover the majority of applications in the name of simplifying the set-up.....and a 9500 rpm v12 with 24 staged sequentail injectors and COP is not easy or anything like common.

 

I didn not know that. Thank you.

I have a usb to serial adapter that got mostly work but it isn't perfect, it sounds like the card it the way to go.

 

You are probably right when I say "need sequential” the "need" part is probably too strong a word. I think I’m basically taking the better safe than sorry approach. I’ve run many things with simply multipoint injection over the years and as you say they ran fine. I ran my QV engine both ways and in the sequential mode there was a noticeable difference in low end smoothness. A V12 so inherently smooth the difference would probably not be noticeable on a stock engine…..but I don’t have a stock engine I have port that are twice as big and cams with 30 degrees more duration and that makes idle and low end fuel control pretty difficult with multipoint injection.

Once you make the jump to sequential there is so hp to be had too. With multi point you normally size the injectors to be at about 85% duty cycle. That give you the best low end control and also means the injector are on are basically all the time so it doesn’t matter that they are technically out of time on most of the cylinders. What I’ll be doing is running a very small injector for low end fuel and a large injector for top end fuel that will be under a 60% duty cycle. The short duty cycle means most of the fuel is flowing when the air it actually moving allowing it to mix a lot better giving better which in turn lowers the fuel consumption and increases the hp a little…and every little bit helps

The throttle will be a progressive linkage design to make off idle throttle control possible…..that is the down side to the huge TBs I fitted in the name of flow and hp, they let in a LOT of air at just a touch of the throttle so progressive linkage is pretty much mandatory or it would be completely undriveable. Your TBs are sized a lot more reasonably and should have this probelm.

 

You might be right but I just don't want to take any chances of deciding it needs to be a do-over. The controls make or break the project and if I had $10k I would just by the motec stuff and not give it a second thought because they work. For a track car what I;m taking about is without question overkill, but on the street......I don't know, race engines can be hard to tame for street use.

 

We'll see.....I still have some time. I want to have a plan so I can get all the right wires in place before the engine goes, so probably 2-3 weeks before I need to decide anything

 

If you could recommend something that would be great. I'll need to connect to a haltech E8 for the EFI job I'm finishing up in the next week or 2 and I've been dreading it because of the serial port issue. I've still got my old laptop sitting here and not on ebay being turned into v12 parts becasue I know I've had the usb to serial adapter working on that machine and I have no idea if it will work on the new machine.

My old laptop in a PCMCIA but the new one is an express card slot so express is what I'd be looking for I guess.

This was one of the strikes against the VEMs ecu too, but if there is an easy answer I can take that off the list.

 

Sounds like the USB to serial adapter world. I bought one and it was useless, the IT guys at work swapted me for one they had and it worked fine....after I found a driver for it because nobody could remember what exactly it was.

Let me know what you find out.

 

Thanks!

The software is com1 by default but will accept com 3 in the setup....I remember I had to change that and then tell the computer the adapter was com in 3 to connect.

Now this being a vista machine what should be easy never seems to be.....we'll see