thermocouples | FerrariChat

thermocouples

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by lostbowl, Jun 21, 2009.

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  1. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
    1,246
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Lostbowl is still lost. I've posted on another forum some time ago and received no replies and then I found FC and have been impressed with the knowledge and response so here I go again! I have an 82 308GTSi and while the engine is out and I am waiting for shims I have other issues to address. Can anyone tell me if the thermocouples (one was burned off) in the cats (already gutted) do anything besides turning the slow down lights on? If they are needed where do I find one or better yet how many Mv do they produce when heated? Can they be scraped?
    Another issue are the heat shields over the headers. I see advertisements for a spray on and bake ceramic coating has anyone used it with success?
    I can only say I very much appreciate this forum. The guys here do a hell of allot more than wear a red hat! My kinda place!
    Lostbowl, in the woods
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    On your model there is no "intelligent" connection between the overtemp warning light ecus and the engine management system -- so, they only turn the lights "on". (On later F models, they did add an intelligent connection to disable the injection system because no one would ever stop! ;))

    Try a search on "thermocouple mv" and/or "thermocouple type" -- I didn't look at all of them, but this is an example with some good data/info:

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58614

    If you are running active cats, it's best to try to have a working overtemp detection system IMO. If you don't have active cats, you don't need this system. If you need a new one, I'd start with the usual (non-dealer) F suppliers (Rutlands, RicambiAmerica, eurospares, AllFerrariParts, GT CarPart, etc.). Unless the price is just really, really stupid, it's hard to justify the time/effort required to design your own IMO.
     
  3. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
    1,246
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Thanks Steve,
    You would not beleive how many people I have asked about these. I very much appreciate the straight-up answers this forum provides. I must say that I am happy with the answer because I cannot find an exact replacement and ,as I mentioned the cats have been gutted. You obviously know what you are talking about so I will ask another question. I had to shake pieces of the cats out of the muffler and had noticed a large differential of flow coming out one side of the tailpipes as opposed to the other. Specifically the right side (facing the rear) had more volumn than the left flowing out. Is this a concern? I don't want to assume anything considering the amount of work I have already invested. Gotta love these cars to work on them! Lostbowl
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Depends somewhat on the design of the muffler that you are using. If you know that the muffler you are using is symmetrical inside, or if the two paths are completely independent, an unbalanced flow at the tailpipes would be a clear sign that you still have an obstruction inside. The "stock" muffler is not symmetrical inside, so the flow at the tailpipes is not equal even when all is OK (so you really can't use this "tailpipe" test to determine if you got it all out or not). If you want to go beyond the "when I shake it, I can't hear anything rattling inside" or looking inside with a flexible boroscope, they do make pressure gauges to measure the exhaust pressure, but these usually are designed to screw into the O2 sensor fitting; however, your model doesn't have O2 sensors, so if there isn't an "inspection" fitting on the cat inlets, you might have to add some sort of fitting to use this type of tool.
     
  5. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
    1,246
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Thanks again for your input Steve. As far as I can tell the car is bone stock but being 27yrs. old and me being new to Fcars I cannot be sure. When I bought it I could easily redline the motor , it simply would not idle properly, so for now I will give it a go. thanks , Lostbowl
     
  6. gilligan308

    gilligan308 Karting

    Dec 8, 2008
    141
    S.W.Florida
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Steve do you know what the normal exhaust header, cats and muffler temps are ?is it normal to get 900-1000 temps ?
     
  7. Jeff Pintler

    Jeff Pintler Formula Junior

    Jul 20, 2005
    537
    Richland
    Full Name:
    Jeff Pintler
    A really good resource to have is a schematic for the engine. It is worth tracking one down 'cause you can follow the the wires from the thermocouple...type K....to the ecu and to the dash lamps. I was measuring 276 deg. C in some cats on a 355 after a short warm-up to fans turn-on. And the red wire is negative and yellow is positive. FWIW


    Jeff Pintler
    89 348tb,86tr
     
  8. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,389
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    Headers and mufflers are usually only in the 300-400 degree range. Cats are much higher, in the 900-1000 range when they are working properly, they wiil be much higher if they have unburned hydrocarbons (raw fuel) going into them. I have seen some glowing bright orange at night.
     

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