Thermostat comparison

Looks like you are calling the diameter of the plunger at the bottom the ID. I am calling ID the diameter of the hole through which the coolant flows, and this is not called out in the technical specs.

 

Here is the link to the Behr Catalog so others can chime in.

http://www.behrthermottronik.de/english/after/massblatt_pkw.pdf

 

OK I get it
I used the input from yr prosperity view but could not tell how ID and OD were defined

 

i purchased a behr/italia thermostat #128991 from lyle tanner enterprises (916-454-3240)
for my 328.

the specs checked out the same as oem including the bleeder hole.

confirmed open temps. in my very expensive and totally scientific test cell (kitchen stove)
yielded 185deg. f to a full open condition while suspended in a pan of boiling water and
measured with a candy thermometer with a 2deg. resolution.

someone here recommended lyle's stat but i don't recall who.
should be in a thread somewhere.



________________________________________
mere conjecture could land you in jail-- dreyfus

 

Bill, I followed up on the Behr Thermotronik Italia number you posted in the other thread and could not find it anywhere. I do have the number of the guy in Italy I can call though!!

As a follow up, I talked to the Hella rep today and 1.105 is discontinued, even though it's in their catalog. D'oh!!!

So far, the Wahler is the best one I have seen. I installed it in my 308 last night. Will test drive this weekend.

Birdman

 

sorry, it's mr. lyle's number.

 

june 2008

 

I knew lyle very will and now he's in or was in china working on a project,its hush hush! but you can get the same good parts and service from ferrparts,they just moved in a new building of over 7000sqft,saw it last week and I could spend all day going through boxes drewling like it was xmas,amazing on the stuff they got

 

Follow up on the Wahler....

The thing is perfect. My car now warms up properly and the needle is parked right at 195, exactly where it should be. The car runs so much better when the engine temp is right. We often think that "cooler is better" because these things so often tend to have issues that make them overheat, but in reality, not true. I mean, it's better to run too cold than to overheat, but running too cold isn't good for the engine either, and it will not run right if it's not up to temp. My car wouldn't warm up on a cool day because the thermostat was opening way too soon. If I went out on the highway on a 50 degree day, I couldn't get the water temp past the first mark on the gauge. TOO COLD to be revving it, and it would often hiccup and hesitate, as carb cars tend to do when they are not warmed up.

I think the Wahler is a good thermostat and as close to OEM as I have seen. You just have to drill the tiny bleed hole in it. So, $250 NLA OEM Savara or $15 Wahler that is essentially dimensionally identical in the place where it counts (the size of the opening in the middle and the amount it opens to allow water flow).

Birdman

 

I have ordered a Thermostat catalogue from Wahler
Took some time due to the holiday period
Found that the reference number that was stated here is not a Wahler number:
056 121 113 is a VW Golf III 1.9 D-TD-TDI reference
The Wahler reference is 4253.87D
I only received a paper version of the catalogue
Unfortunately the drawing of this type is missing in the catalogue
There may be an alternative used for VW Golf I+II+IV TDI (no idea what the exact difference is):
VW 030 121 113 = Wahler 4264.87D with dimensions OD 54, ID 35 (total dia); length 31
Will try to get the 4253 drawing + difference with 4264

Bill Brooks:
Can you confirm the dimensions for the 328 thermostat being the same as for the 308 (or not)

Birdman:
I will PM some scans

 

Already got the answer from Wahler
Both types have the same dimensions
4253 is made in brass
4264 is the stainless version
Used in all VW + Audi 1.9 Diesel engines

 

Thanks for the follow up!

 

Birdman, please provide details on the modification you performed on the Wahler thermostat for use in your 308. You mention "drilling a hole"--where exactly did you drill such a hole and what size drill did you use? And thanks for giving us the Wahler number, the place where you purchased it as well as the results of the installation. All of that is tremendously helpful and confidence inspiring.

 

I don't mean to muddy the (coolant) waters, but one of the techs I trust mentioned that Stant #S337180 works in 308's. Can anyone verify?

 

A stant thermostat will go in there, but the previously mentioned thermostats fits better and has closer dimensions to the original one. Neither one is a perfect fit in my opinion though.

If you have the original thermostat it will have a hole in it. Just drill a similar hole on the new one. If you dont have the original then Im sure there is a picture on here somewhere with where the hole goes....

Aaron

 

I ordered one from www.busdepot.com for $8 and change.

The 056121113 is a 71*C T stat

The 056121113A is 80*C

The 056121113D is 87* C

Doug

 

Great information. I bookmarked this post.

I too was of the opinion that a thermostat is just a thermostat until the one in my old 4 Runner went bad. I put a Stat thermostat and oversized radiator. The truck would not run the same as before. It would either overheat or be cold depending on if I turned on the heater. This was weird, as the heater on was causing my engine to overheat.

I ran thermocouples to the engine head, termocouple housing, radiator, etc. I had 8 channels connected to my recorder and laptop. Too bad I don't have the charts anymore.

Basically the radiator fluid in the head had to get hotter than the rating on the thermostat to open up. The temperature on the head, opposite side of the thermostat went up quite a bit. The thermostat would open. Temperature in the head went down and in the radiator went up. Then the thermostat would close. Temperature in the head would go up and radiator down. This was a cycle of ups and downs.

In my case, when I turned on the heater, the cooled water of the heater would cool off the thermostat and it would close, causing the opposite side of the head temperature to go up.

I then decided to replace the $3 Stat with a $15 Toyota OEM thermostat and ran the same tests.

The temperature would still go up and down, but much smoother and at more frequent intervals.

Ever since that experiment, I only bought OEM thermostats for all my vehicles. In the case of my Mondial, I do not want to use an original new 20 year old thermostat that has been sitting in a warehouse. I'm following this thread. Keep it up, guys!

 

I had to run by FerrParts this AM to swap out some wrong valve cover gaskets and check on a thermostat. They had a Ferrari NA bag full (8-10) of the 109671A parts in stock as well as the rubber sealing ring 105192 and the housing gaskets 105189. I mic'd the housing and its 56mm OD with a 27mm ID. Cost for all three pieces was reasonable enough to not warrant my looking for aftermarket. It looks to be made by Behr and has the thermal shock hole already in it. Other markings show THERMOT-tronik and 8D-82. For those looking I also saw 4 boxes of the 128991 which I believe are for 328.

Hope this helps,
Rick
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That's not a "thermal shock" hole... its for air to be able to go through when the thermostat is closed to make it easier to bleed. The hole has to go towards the top when you orient the themostat in place.

 

Its both... google the term and you'll see plenty of references. It's a case of two problems being solved with one minor fix. Our race engine builder was the first person I heard speak of it and I had to look it up too. Especially beneficial in colder climates. But you make an excellent point on the orientation for those unfamiliar with the feature.

Rick

 

I installed the VW Golf/Wahler 80*C T stat last week.

Works fine, temp runs 190-195 around town, about 180 on the highway, which tells me that I either need to increase my low speed airflow through the rad or low speed water flow to the rad. Probably airflow.

Came with the rubber O ring, which I dropped right on top of the T stat to keep it from moving up and down in the cavity,and cut a new housing gasket from a roll of gasket paper I keep around.

I did drill the air hole. Took about 10 seconds for that.

I suspect the 8D-82 marking on the T-stat mentioned above is a date code, 8,April, 1982. Or it could be 82*C.

Doug

 

Interesting that it's both! Good to know. I made my statement based on the Ferrari service manual:
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Mike,
We'll never know if the Ferrari engineers knew this or just backed into it. Thankfully they did have the hole. The concept of Thermal Shock came into public knowledge long after that shop manual was published. The article our engine builder sent said BMW was the first to publish ( I think it was around 1997) anything on the concept when they were seeing a higher rate of head gasket failures in their newer, thin cast all aluminum motors in colder northern climates as opposed to warmer southern ones - Counter intuitive to what they were expecting. It took a lot of research to discover that the influx of the really cold water into the motor when the thermostat opened caused the "thermal shock" as the block and heads were seeing different temps and head gaskets just couldn't take the strain. They spent a lot of money and time and actually found the very simple solution was to have a small weep hole in the thermostat that would allow the downstream water mass to be warmed slightly before the thermostat opened. The side benefit was this also reduced radiator inlet failures as well (reverse applies here, hot water hitting cold rad). Air Bleed holes were already common practice on many thermostats so their improvement/change made it to field hardly noticed. Anyway, their head gasket failures on this particular car went to almost zero after the fix.

Rick